Phil:
We're delighted to welcome onto the underground today, Anna Wili, the head of marketing from the National Garden Scheme. Welcome, Anna.

Kate:
Morning, Anna.

Anna:
Thank you. So good to be here.

Phil:
So I think let's kick off by just asking you for anybody who's not really familiar, if you can just give us a bit of a quick overview about what the National Garden scheme is?

Anna:
Certainly. Yes. And quick is always is, it's hard, there's so much to say, but I will try and do it quickly. But yes, the National Garden scheme was founded almost 100 years ago, in 1927, and it was the result of a really brilliant idea put forward by one of the committee members, Elsie Wagg, from the Queen's Nursing Institute, as a way of raising funds to help fund district nursing, at the time.
And so they asked garden owners to open their gardens for a shilling a head, invite all the people from the local villages to come and have a peek behind the garden gates. And in that first year, we had 609 gardens, which opened their gates and raised just over £8,000. So a really successful year, and we've been doing it ever since, effectively, the only year we didn't open gardens was covered year.

Kate:
So it even went on during the Second World War?

Anna:
Absolutely

Kate:
I had no idea it was that old. Yeah.

Phil:
And you mentioned there and it was, a member of the committee. What committee? What committee is that and what organisation do you belong to?

Anna:
Initially, it was started by the Queen's Nursing Institute, now called the Queen's Institute of Community Nursing. So that was where it began. And it has grown from then and now obviously we are an independent charity, although we continue to fund the Queen's Nursing Institute, through that. But so initially we opened the 609 gardens. Today we open between 3,300 and 3,500 gardens each year to the public, giving people unique access to these fantastic private gardens, giving them an opportunity to have a nose behind the garden gate. Because obviously we're always quite nosy and you know, so many of the gardens open only for maybe 1 or 2 days in the year, and it's really a fantastic day out for people. It's an opportunity to explore someone's garden, to find out more about it, to chat to the garden owner and then possibly a nice slice of homemade cake in the garden while you're there. So a really lovely day out.

Kate:
Possibly? That's a must!

Anna:
Yeah, absolutely. It must. Look out for the yellow garden’s open for charity signs. But I think the one thing that people often don't realise, even those in the gardens themselves, is that actually, as a result of those garden visits, and the generosity of the garden owners who invite people into their gardens, we've raised over £74 million for nursing and health charities since that founding.
And last year we raised we donated £3.5 million to nursing and health charities, which is fantastic. So it's charities like Macmillan Cancer Support, who we've donated to for over 40 years. And Marie Curie, Hospice UK, Parkinson's UK. So some really fantastic nursing and health charities doing amazing work. And we don't only now focus on nursing, we also focus on gardens and health.
So we have a long-term commitment as well to, gardens and health projects and also community grants to really help bring gardens into every community. So and I think the one thing to say about the national organisation is that we couldn't do anything that we do, we that are extraordinary garden owners who open their gardens and put so much commitment, energy, passion into doing that.
Our team of 560 volunteers across the country who work with our very small team at the central office, of just 12 people. So it really is an amazing organisation with an incredible thread of generosity running through it. And that's not even to talk about all the friends and family and the kids that help out on an open day and bake cakes or serve cakes or take admissions, whatever. So yes, fantastic organisation.

Kate:
It is incredible. It's such a labour of love. And I'm hoping one day I'll be able to open my own garden.

Anna:
Well, that would be fantastic. And yes, you're right, some people will spend hours looking at every plant in the garden and want to know all about it. Others go straight for the tea and cake. So yes, we welcome all sorts into the gardens.

Kate:
Many of the charities you've, you've talked about, they're involved, to do with health. How do promote the connection between gardens and wellbeing in your campaign. Is that important to the scheme?

Anna:
Yeah. It's really important to us. And I think that is, it's vital that good connection between gardens and health is a really powerful and positive message. And it is at the heart of what we do, and what we have always done. So our gardens and health program raises awareness of the benefits. To everybody, to all of us, but also about the healthy gardens to wider biodiversity as well.
Gardens and Health is a campaign that we run every year. We've dedicated a week for our Gardens and Health Week in May of each year. It will be the 2nd to the 10th of May next year. And so we have a host of stories to tell around that time. We publish an annual little Yellow Book of Gardens in Health. Which we have contributors from our garden owners, from medical experts, beneficiaries, ambassadors, influencers, it's a whole kind of, wealth of fascinating stories as to how people have benefited, from being in nature, from gardens and the value that they can have. And that has become hugely popular, particularly with our beneficiaries, actually, for their audiences.
But yes. So that's become hugely popular. And of course, we do work on our messaging around gardens and health throughout the year, we connect with some of our beneficiary charities to give them access to some of our gardens for their service users. And this is particularly valuable, I think, to, some of the young carers from Carers Trust who come and spend a day in our gardens with our garden owners, which is really fantastic. So yes, really important to us.

Kate:
Recently we talk about private gardens and ones that people don't normally get a chance to see, but within the scheme you've got quite a few of the bigger gardens, some National Trust gardens that will have the odd day that is dedicated to NGS. How long's that been happening? Because that's quite a coup, isn't it, really?

Anna:
I mean, that's been happening for a long old time. And, you know, some of our founding gardens, like Sandringham, you know, they there are some gardens and some of the National Trust gardens that they do have a nominated today. So at Hatching for example, where we’re based, they do a bluebell opening. And what they tend to do is they often make a donation to the National Garden Scheme as a result of promoting it as a day for us.

Kate:
How does someone go about joining the scheme and opening their gardens to the public?

Anna:
We're always on the lookout for new gardens. Every year we probably have about 900 new gardens that join the scheme, and we will probably have a similar number that take a year off or decide not to open that year or whatever. So there's quite a lot of new gardens coming in and gardens going out, so we always look for new, beautiful gardens.
And I think, you know, people are often very humble about their gardens. But I think if people love coming to visit your garden, they tell you how beautiful it is and they want to spend time in it, it is highly likely that other people would like to as well. So in terms of how do you get involved, just contact us through the website or at our [email protected] email address.
Send in a couple of photographs of the garden. And we'll put you in touch with, fantastic local volunteers. They will then give you a call, come and visit the garden, talk through the options, answer all your questions. You know, just checks at the garden is suitable. They’re obviously private gardens, so we need to be aware of steep steps, places where people can fall off this. You know that kind of stuff. But yes. So that's it. So it's a sort of a friendly conversation. It's a walk around the garden. And then people, if at that point they decide, yes, I'm going to open for the National Garden scheme and everything works out. Then they register their gardens, at which point their photographs and the details will appear on our website and all our promotional marketing materials.
So it's a relatively straightforward process. Registration happens sort of September, October time each year. But actually people can join the scheme at any time, and they can do a pop up opening if they join late in the year where it's not in our materials but we’ll promote it through, other channels.
So yes. No, we're always on the lookout for great new gardens.

Kate:
And are people worried about being judged about how good their garden is?

Anna:
Yeah, of course they are. No one likes to… everyone feels like that. But honestly, we have an enormous range of gardens, and I think the one thing that is really important is the people who open their gardens. They have a real passion for their gardens, and every garden that opens for us offers a really personal and unique experience for the visitor.
So we've got wildlife gardens and we've got some that are all beautifully manicured, but it's not the manicured garden of the past, you know, it's a very different of garden. We've got hospice gardens open for us, community gardens, allotment gardens, you know, it's a whole range. So I would say don't let that put you off. Get in touch.

Kate:
So kind of leading on from that, within your, your brochure or online and especially as you're within the marketing, do you kind of choose, specific kind of stories behind a garden that you can, you can promote? Is there anything that you kind of are looking for, to kind of promote those, those narratives to capture public interest?

Anna:
Yeah. And I think, I mean, the reality is that we've got 3,300 stories to tell because every garden has a personal story. So what we do is we focus on those that really best demonstrate what we're about. So it's the passionate plants people. It's the people who have connections with our beneficiaries who’ve, you know, and who's garden is really important to them, whether they've developed it in memory of a loved one or, it's helped them through a really difficult time or whatever the reason. It's those personal stories that we would publicise, but it's also just the horticultural interest of some of the gardens. Some of them are just absolutely glorious, and you feel like you've just walked into heaven as you walk into the garden and you just feel at peace. So it's a whole range of things. And it obviously also depends a bit about what the media is looking for at the time, as to which ones we might promote to get a wider coverage. But we certainly try and promote all the garden openings, obviously. But yes, there is a wealth of stories about our garden owners, how they've developed their gardens, what their connections are, what their motivations are. So yes, we're never short of a story.

Kate:
I mean, it's a great thing. I remember when I used to work as a researcher on Gardener’s World, one of our main sources was the The Little Yellow Book, and we would look through it, and ooh, now that sounds an interesting, and we'd ring them up, and go and visit. It was just brilliant.

Anna:
Yeah, I think we are the library for Gardener’s World. Definitely. Yeah.

Kate
You definitely are!

Anna: 14:33
So, yes, the Yellow Book is our Garden Visitors handbook, which lists all of the gardens open for us each year.

Phil:
Right. I was interested. I mean, you said you've been running every single year since inception, apart from during Covid. Have you noticed any shifts in public interest, or engagement over that time and or since you've been involved in it now over the whole time? Maybe especially over the last few years. Maybe since Covid?

Anna:
Yeah, I think Covid without question, had a really big impact on all of us, obviously, but also about the value and importance people placed in their gardens or in green open spaces. And during that year, or just after that year, we, did a survey with our database to really find out how important gardens were to them. And we published a report, on the findings. And through that, 92% of those who responded said their gardens and outdoor space were extremely important to them during lockdown in terms of health and wellbeing. And I think that's what that period of time did for us. It was… gardens and outdoor spaces was so important, to us all. And so I think that did really boost people's awareness without any shadow of doubt.
You know, gardens and health has been at the core of our messaging since we were founded, you know, and so it's something that we have always focussed on, but we are finding it now easier to share those messages and to have a very positive, response to them. So yes, I think it definitely benefited all of us.

Kate:
Absolutely. How are you adapting to attract, younger audiences and is it important to attract younger audiences?

Anna:
Well, I think there's no question that, core audiences in our gardens, are the older group. People with more time in general. But it is something that we're constantly… we're working on and we have anecdotal feedback and we are promoting, where I think the affordability of the day out because in most of our gardens, children go free.
So, it is a fantastic way to reconnect kids with nature, to get them off their screens for a short period of time. So, we are working quite hard to do that and really promoting, the fabulous gardens during the school holidays and things. I think social media is definitely bringing us a younger audience. There are opportunities to spread the message of the value of garden visiting and the fun that can be found there as well.
So, there is an anecdotal shift, but it's a long process, I think, for us, to really shift the audience down. And I think as long as we can keep shifting the audience down by ten years and, and we'll have the next generation of garden visitors.

Kate:
And, of course, you don't want to alienate your core group of visitors either, which, you know, sometimes that's what happens with organisations when they just try and think, right, we've got to attract younger people, then they alienate the original group.

Anna:
Yeah. And we would not want to do that at all obviously. Because we have a very fantastic audience of visitors who, who come to the gardens.

Kate:
It's the same when you visit garden centres, there is a demographic and they’re always going to be there. And, you know, keep them coming. That's that's super important.

Anna:
Yeah. Absolutely. And they can bring their kids and their grandchildren. Fantastic.

Kate:
And that's how you get there, isn't it? That's how you get them in.

Anna:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Kate:
So and many of our listeners work in the garden care industry. So, you know, a lot of garden centre owners, manufacturers, how can they get involved or benefit from supporting the scheme?

Anna:
Well, I mean, I think we already have great support from lots of garden centres through them sharing our county booklets, which we distribute free of charge, and many of the garden centres stock them so they’re helping to raise our visibility and to share our materials, but as we're going towards our centenary, this is a really great opportunity, to get involved.
And this is something that I'm working together, with a colleague. Boyd on.

Kate:
When you say Boyd, we're talking about Boyd. Douglas-Davies. Is that right?

Anna:
Yes, I'm sorry. Boyd. Douglas. Davis. Yes, who has a wealth of experience. I'm sure most people who listen to his podcast will know who he is. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. No. And that's fantastic to be working with him and getting his support to really get this off the ground.
So, in 2027, we’re celebrating 100 years of opening gardens. And we're looking to celebrate both that thread of generosity that has supported us for the hundred years, looking to increase awareness and encouraging more people to open gardens and visit our gardens.
And we absolutely would love to collaborate more closely with the garden care industry to help us do that. You know, since before garden centres began, there have been gardens opening the length and breadth of the country and inspiring visitors to head straight from the garden opening into the garden centres to recreate that little bit of heaven in their own gardens.
So, we, as I say, we are looking to collaborate with nurseries, garden suppliers, manufacturers, as well as garden centres and so we are over the last six months, we've been having conversations with lots of different people. And we're in the process of finalising some brand license agreements with them. So that's covering bulbs and plants and trees and garden accessories and gifts and stationery, all sorts of things.
So, we've had some really, really fabulous conversations and a really very positive response to that.
And we feel that, you know, with our heritage, with our reputation, that we are well-placed to, to drive some significant sales into those garden centres. So, I think people are seeing it as a win-win situation, whether you can support what we do and the charities that we're raising funds for, as well as benefit from it themselves.

Phil:
And you're still looking for those brand partnerships are you Anna?

Anna:
Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes. So, you know, we would… we'd love to have more people get involved. We'd love to talk to them. So, if people are interested again, they can contact me, which is just [email protected] or they can go on to our website and find more information about how to get involved. But in addition to working with, the suppliers and the manufacturers and the nurseries and the plants people, you know, we are also looking to work with garden centres because they are such fantastic community hubs.
You know, they're great at organising customer events, and we know that many of them, that we've spoken to, you know, would love the chance to host centenary celebrations within their store. You know, maybe to increase footfall during a quieter month, you know, post the madness that is Chelsea. And the lead up to that.
So we're already aware of plans for talks by garden owners and special shopping events featuring the Centenary Project products. And we're hoping to really develop that going forward. Boyd has been working very closely with Glee, and they've promised to have a National Garden Scheme Product of the Year in September 2026 to try and to start to really highlight, the whole project, so yes, so that's really exciting. And hopefully we will collaborate with lots more people to make this really valuable.

Phil:
Yeah. And sticking with your centenary celebrations, have you got events that you're planning as well as the these brand tie-ins?

Anna:
We will do. I mean, things are sort of still in development at this stage. And I think one of the things that we really… we still have, a number of our founding gardens that open for us. So, every year, probably 50 or 60 of them, those that opened in 1927 are still opening for us, which is phenomenal.
We have one garden that has opened its gates every year since then, which is Rampster Gardens. So, we're really looking to work, to build relationships with those founding gardens to have at least 100 open in our centenary year, which would be fantastic. We will have a number of events happening across the year. Those are still in development at this stage.

Kate:
Watch this space. Yeah, exciting.

Anna:
Watch this space – absolutely.

Phil:
Anna, if you could persuade one celebrity to open their gardens for the scheme. Who would it be and why?

Anna:
Well, it's a tricky one, isn't it? But I would say probably David Beckham. He's a keen gardener, and he sort of epitomises that enthusiastic amateur, which so many of us, and of course, he has a huge online audience and a huge following. So, I think that would definitely help widen our audience, bring new and younger audiences to the National Garden Scheme and obviously be a fabulous fundraiser. So, who knows watch this space.

Kate:
Well, I'm sure he's a keen listener of this podcast. So, That's one for Boyd to work on, I think.

Anna:
Yes. Well, he's he's a friend of our new president, I think so, who knows? Never say never. So it's Alan Titchmarsh who has taken over from Mary Berry, who will still work with us, but she's stepped down from being president. So, we've been incredibly fortunate. We're very lucky to have the two of them.

Phil:
Yeah, absolutely.

Kate:
So maybe a centenary special.

Anna:
You never know.

Kate:
David Beckham's the Beckhams open garden, we’ll keep a look out, I'll be there! Well, thank you so much for talking to us Anna, it's been a real pleasure to hear all about, the amazing work that you do. I certainly, you know, I have my little book and I go around every year, and I really love it when you get a village or a community, and they all open their gardens on the same day, and you go walking round all of this, and it's just such a lovely community event. I really like that, especially in Devon. There seems to be quite a lot of that going on.

Anna:
Yeah, no, it's a fantastic day isn't it?

Kate:
It’s a fantastic scheme. So thank you so much for talking to us.

Anna:
Well thank you. It's been lovely to talk to you guys.

Phil:
Thanks Anna