Phil:
Hi, and welcome to The Underground, the official podcast partner of Glee 2025. I’m Phil Wright and together with my co-host Kate Turner we took our podcast booth to the Glee show in Birmingham to capture a snapshot of the industry and take the pulse of what’s going on in the garden sector right now. As well as recording 20 interviews, Kate and I ventured out of our recording booth to gain some insights from exhibitors on the show floor.
In this episode of the podcast, we chat with representatives of two mainstays in the garden industry. Earlier this year, Kate Ebbens joined Woodlodge as their commercial business manager. But first, here's our conversation with Dan Durston and Simon Blackhurst from Durstons.

I'm absolutely delighted to welcome back onto the show Dan and Simon from Durstons. Welcome both of you.

Dan & Simon
Thank you very much. Thank you.

Kate Turner:
Hello, hello.

Simon:
Fantastic to be here.

Phil:
So Dan and Simon, this is your returning visit. We had you on once before, but, so welcome back. You've had a really strong year since we last spoke. How's Glee be for you?

Dan:
Glee has been a great success for us. We've, launched our rebrand this year. And we've had lots and lots of visitors and lots and lots of lovely comments about how strong the branding looks and its classical colours and its heritage feel. So, yeah, we're really, really blown away by the response we've had.

Phil:
Fantastic.

Kate Turner:
So what kind of conversations have you been having with buyers on the stand this year?

Dan:
Basically, lots of buyers that, you know, possibly may have walked past us before have actually been, distracted to come and look at our products and come and talk to us and find out more. So, yeah, it's been really encouraging.

Simon:
I think there's also been quite a lot of noise about the quality improvements and the way that the products have been massively elevated with your innovation. And, you know, my support during the last couple of years because…

Dan:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the standard of our quality in our products has not, changed over the last two years. We've been trialling them behind the scenes. It's just that we've repackaged them in new packaging. And we've renamed some of them, but, you know, it's the same high-quality products.

Kate Turner:
Right.

Phil:
Yeah. And you've been working over the last two years. You've really have been working on developing that peat free compost haven’t you? Simon do you want to tell us a little bit about that?

Simon:
Yeah. So, in terms of the free compost, Dan sort of challenged me to make a range that would fit within the Durston’s branding and that really excelled on performance. Performance is the key element of it. So, we had to make sure that the raw materials that we were choosing were consistent. Meeting specifications. And then understanding how those blends are going to perform over time.
So, we've grown lots and lots of plants and, yeah. And just made sure that those products, whatever's in the bag, when the consumer gets it, it will work.

Phil:
Fantastic. And that's basically you, you traditionally distance was a peat producing…

Dan:
Correct, yes.

Phil:
And you are still.

Dan:
We are still.

Phil:
But is that phasing out over time, is that the plan?

Dan:
That is the plan and the hopefully, you know, the legislation will move us in that direction.

Kate Turner:
Let’s hope so.

Phil:
So this is quite a big transition for you.

Dan:
Totally. Yeah. Well, we didn't want to get to a stage where there was a peat ban being brought in, and then we had to start thinking about manufacturing peat free. We wanted to be ahead of the game. And as Simon said, consistency and performance is very key to us, but also, repeatability and reliability so that every bag is the same and you get outstanding results with every bag.

Kate Turner:
Yeah. Which has been a real issue with some peat free hasn't it, this well over the last couple of years. Consistency. That's the one we really see, so if you can nail that.

Simon:
Exactly.

Dan:
Absolutely.

Kate Turner:
Yeah. So can you tell us a bit about. Well, tell us a lot about the Duston's rebrand which you've unveiled here at Glee?

Dan:
Yes. We, employed a company called Future Kings from Bristol to help us in an advertising campaign to get us noticed more. And the first thing that we did was, talk about a rebrand. So, yeah, we had our first conversations with them in November, where they took us to a meeting room and showed us, some options of where our brand should go to. Because they studied a lot of garden companies and a lot of compost companies, and they looked at their branding and their colouring, bag colours and things like that. And, they suggested some options for us. One was, you know, a slight change and one was more of a radical change, and one was quite a drastic change that, we didn't like. But, we feel that the change that we've made has really elevated our business and our brand.

Phil:
Yeah. And we were talking just before, when we came on our here and, and I was saying that all of our team at WrightObara absolutely love the new branding. I think it's a real elevation for you, it looks really premium. And, the colour palette, it blends really well across and it’s got clear segmentation, but it all looks and flows and it feels like a family of products. It’s really, really, really nice.

Dan:
Yeah, it really does.

Kate Turner:
And this is from a creative marketing agency who are really jealous because they would have loved the job, so for them to give the praise! That's pretty good. It must be good.

Phil:
Saying it through gritted teeth.

Dan:
Yeah. Well it has, as I did say, it was meant to be an advertising campaign, so it wasn't meant to be a rebrand.

Kate Turner:
Right. Okay.

Simon:
Yeah. That was the remit when it started wasn't it?

Dan:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Simon:
And they looked at the brand, the original brand said we need to shake this up, guys.

Kate Turner:
Yeah, and they have. And can I just mention the lorry?

Dan:
Yeah.

Kate Turner:
The Subtle way it’s parked outside…

Simon:
It’s fantastic.

Dan:
We brought our stand up, to Glee on Monday, and we couldn't find the keys after we unloaded the lorry.

Kate Turner:
It just had to stay out at the front of the NEC.

Dan:
It just had to stay where it was. Yeah. It's just one of those unfortunate things.

Kate Turner:
Well, I hope you find the keys soon so you can get home.

Phil:
So Garden Forum recently called it an outstanding season for Durstons. What's behind that momentum?

Dan:
To be totally honest with you, I think the sun shining all the way through March to July was a big help for us.

Phil:
It's been a big help for the whole category.

Dan:
Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Simon:
You have also made a lot of noise.

Dan:
We have.

Simon:
You've done a lot of social media, which you didn't do before, which just generated noise, you know, and then people are asking about Durstons and saying, oh, what’s happening, you know. I'm sure I've heard of them. Do they do compost as well? You know. Yeah, sort of thing which has helped.

Dan:
I mean, obviously being a GIMA member and a GIMA council member, I get myself out and about quite a bit, with the events that we put on.

Kate Turner:
Yes, of course.

Dan:
We've done a lot more advertising as well as our rebrand. And as you say, we've got a small social media team that are doing videos and blogs, and Kate's doing our, monthly What to do in the garden.

Kate Turner:
And YouTube.

Dan:
Absolutely blogs and YouTube.

Kate Turner:
It’s just getting you out there. Getting you seen

Dan:
It's many factors that are just, elevating our brand and our company, which is all moving in the right direction.

Kate Turner:
So, we do know that a lot of growers and retailers are still a bit cautious because, you know, we have had a few bad years, haven't we? What do you think has helped Durstons stand out this year? Apart from the branding? But that’s only just happened hasn’t it?

Dan:
Yeah, that hasn't happened yet in packaging. But I think our, consistent high performance, results and growth, you know, flowers and vegetables consistently time and time again, whether it's peat based or peat free. We find it’s sometimes hard to get in places, but once we're in there, we stay there.

Simon:
The customers look for you. They ask for you.

Kate Turner:
And, Simon, you've been a big part of that, haven't you?

Simon:
Yeah, yeah. In terms of the technical side of things and helping, you know, on the manufacturing side with Dan and making sure everything is perfect - basically.

Phil:
And talking about standing out. We're here at GLEE and it's Floral Thursday. And I have to say the pair of you are looking resplendent in your Floral Thursday tops.

Kate Turner:
I’m glad this is on video.

Simon:
We've got Dan's initials all over us basically.

Kate Turner:
And I'm just as we're looking at the podcast window, we can see somebody…

Simon
Oh with a Durston’s bag.

Kate Turner:
Which is also really beautiful.

Simon:
It is. It is. It is really good.

Phil:
How have you managed to keep pace with the growing demand?

Dan:
Oh, that's a good question. We did… I mean, we're going back quite a long time now, but we did have, a bit of an ordeal in Covid when we were, extremely busy. We had at the time one production line. So we were capped at roughly 2,000 pallets a week production.

Phil:
Okay. And that seems like quite a lot.

Dan:
It does, but…

Simon:
It’s nowhere near!

Dan:
At peak we had 17,000 pallets on order. So, at the time, I was doing my day job, in the office, working till about 4 or 5 O’Clock and then going home for some dinner and back to the factory until midnight. Working weekends. So, it was… I actually enjoyed it. It was a lot of adrenaline. But I wouldn't want to do it again.

Phil:
Pretty full on.

Dan:
So, Yeah. So, our lead times did extend by, quite a bit. But we did supply everything in full, that year. But on the back of that, we decided that the obvious thing to do was to, invest in a secondary production line, which doubled our capacity. Which was really great and a luxury.
And in 2024, early part of 2024, we put in a third production line. So, we've actually tripled our, production capacity at our factory. And we can now produce 6,000 pallets a week quite comfortably without having to do too much overtime and, stressing the staff etc.

Simon:
And your Dad!

Phil:
That's a tremendous investment from you, though isn’t it?

Dan:
It is. It is Yeah. We're here for the long time. We're taking it seriously, and we want to be able to, supply all the time, on time and in full.

Phil:
And I think the rebrand has also helped to underscore that this isn't a fly by night company. You're here for the long term aren’t you?

Simon:
You can see the commitment that you guys have put in. I mean, if you're lucky enough to have a site tour. And Dan's always inviting people around.

Dan:
I love doing site tours.

Simon:
You can see just how much passion goes into it. And how you've looked at the future to futureproof your business. Because that's what you wanted to do.

Kate Turner:
But also, I think that comes out of your heritage as well. Yeah. As you mentioned briefly, your dad. This is it, isn’t it. It's a family business.

Dan:
That's right. There's three of us in the management team. There’s myself, my dad, who runs the production team. My uncle, who's been at Glee for the first two days, who runs… oversees marketing and sales. And, yeah, we're still very passionate.

Kate Turner:
And your daughter as well.

Dan:
And my daughter Kate, Katie's seventh generation, and she's learning the ropes and she's getting to know people now, and, Yeah, it's great to have her at the show.

Kate Turner:
So apart from the kind of technical quality of your compost. What else what what's helping your products work so well for actual retailers? You know, you've talked a bit about your supply, price point, performance, ease of stocking. Anything else?

Dan:
Oh, good question.

Simon:
Quick service.

Dan:
I think delivery services is a very good one. I did joke with a potential customer yesterday. They asked what my lead time was, and I said, it's five days on full loads. And I said, that's all the time.

Kate Turner:
Right. And did they believe you?

Dan:
Yeah. They did.

Phil:
So, consumer feedback must play a role in that as well. So, what are you hearing from end users that gives you the confidence in your products?

Dan:
Quite often we get emails saying how, well, the compost has performed, but quite often - more often - we just get photographs of beautiful flowers and baskets and vegetables and yeah. You don't ever get bored of hearing it. And it's just lovely to hear and lovely to share with your team that are also, you know, part of the journey with you.

Phil:
Yeah. So, yeah, that must be a real confidence boost. Just to get those pictures.

Simon:
It makes you feel proud, doesn't it? Because we've put all that time and investment into making sure these products are going to work. Every single bag wants to work. And you know, when we get that validation back from consumers. I mean, for me, that makes me sleep at night.

Kate Turner:
Yes, I mean especially when you've been behind the technical side?

Simon:
Yes exactly.

Kate Turner:
You know, you're putting your name as a consultant.

Dan:
Reputation.

Simon:
Yeah, totally.

Kate Turner:
You want it to work, don’t you?

Simon:
Yeah.

Kate Turner:
So, has anything surprised you about the journey of scaling up, either operationally or commercially?

Simon:
It does cost quite a bit. From a commercial point of view!

Dan:
Yeah. It's very expensive. But also, we're quite an efficient team, so we don't employ a lot of people in the factory. Although we've had to find more staff, obviously. But, yeah, we do what we do, which is, a lot of bags, a lot of pallets in a year, but with a very slim team stuff, staff wise. Yeah, we're very efficient.

Simon:
I think it's also been really nice to see your existing staff that have been working with you since, you know, 20 - 30 years or whatever.

Dan:
Yeah, absolutely.

Simon:
They've really embraced the expansion as well. And you can see like Paul your…

Dan
Production manager.

Simon:
Production manager, yeah. Super excited when another machines be rolled in and that's really nice. It gets a proper buzz about the place.

Kate Turner:
So rather than going oh no.

Simon
Yeah. He’s completely the opposite. Yeah. He absolutely loves it doesn't he? He loves a challenge.

Dan:
Well, Paul, started working for us in 1990.

Kate Turner:
Oh my goodness.

Dan:
Yeah. He's, totally committed to us

Simon:
And your dad's not going anywhere anytime soon is he?

Dan:
No, they make a good team.

Simon:
Yeah. They do.

Phil:
Oh. That's excellent. So let's talk about peat free for a moment. So…

Simon:
Are you sure, you want to do that?

Kate Turner:
Oh, yes. It’s not going away!

Phil:
We know that peat free is different to peat-based composts. So how are you addressing how you educate consumers in that change of how to use the product.

Simon:
Back of pack. That's all been redone, hasn't it? In terms of some tips, so that consumers can have a look at that and understand how best to use from a watering point of view, nutrition. Your part of the Sizzle, Enrich the Earth, collaboration which has got about 30 different people in there - 30 different manufacturing brands who were trying to get communication out, on the shop floor.
But it's, that's the hardest part. And that takes time. The Enrich the Earth campaign was, was funded by, Esmée Fairbairn, the charity. And they've been campaigning for peat action for 30 odd years. And so they wanted to help consumers because we highlighted to them that consumers needed support.

Phil:
Right.

Simon:
You know, so we I think as an industry, we need to keep banging that drum. That peat free is different. It's not that it's difficult or anything is, you know, you can't use it. It's just that it's different.

Kate Turner:
Yeah.

Dan:
I mean, just going on from there, it doesn't need any more water. It doesn't need any more feed. It just needs applying differently.

Simon:
Especially… Well, if it's made correctly.

Kate Turner:
Yeah. Yes. Okay. So I mean that that is, that is really, really key, isn’t it. But what where should that education come from? I mean I know and I'm sure you do that a lot of people don't read instructions, don't read back of packs. So, you know, should it come from the garden centre, media influencers, or all of the above.

Simon:
It's got to be everybody. You know, I've had a lovely couple of conversations with some garden centre retail staff who were like, where can I find the information, how to be able to teach gardeners? He said, there's a couple of guys yesterday that said: we get questions all the time and we don't always know where to go.
And so yeah, that education needs to come from our industry. And hopefully, you know, people like the GMA will be able to support that. GIMA. And there are other organisations that are collaborating to get single messages out there.

Dan:
Going, going on from what you said about educating people, which is really a must have. We've, obviously part of our rebrand. We've, launched our brand new website as well, which has got a lot of information and advice on there.

Simon:
Yeah, of course, and on your socials.

Dan:
Trade areas and things like that.

Kate Turner:
It’s just getting that message out.

Dan:
Obviously, to follow Kate on Socials as well.

Simon:
Yeah.

Kate Turner:
Absolutely.

Simon:
And follow me.

Kate Turner:
Yeah. We're going to ramp it all up, aren’t we.

Phil:
Excellent. So, staying on that education theme, are you seeing that retailers, there's more that they could be doing to, help educate and get that message out there?

Dan:
I think there's a lot more they could do, to be honest.

Simon:
Yeah, I think there are some retailers that are really forward thinking, and I've had some fantastic conversations with them and they're fully embracing sustainability, understanding, not using more water, less chemicals, things like that. There are also some that perhaps, may be sick of what they class as greenwashing. So, are not interested. I think the consumer themselves is looking at this category and thinking how they can be as sustainable as possible. So, there is still a lot to do.

Kate Turner:
Yeah. I'm find one of the big things is, is you talked about feed you know, one of the, the big man of plant food manufacturers is pushing hard a really high potassium plant feed. And we kind of know that's really bad for using with peat free compost. So, it's trying to get not just retailers. It's also the manufacturers have got to think about the products they're bringing out.

Simon:
Yeah of course I mean it's very difficult to say whether potassium is something the across the board is an issue. When you're manufacturing a product, you design it to have a certain level of NPK, for example.
You know, I know that mine all sit within the region. So, actually a standard fertiliser doesn't cause an issue with that. But, potassium doesn't leach, so it's going to stay within the pot anyway. I'm getting a bit techie, but, yeah, I think…

Kate Turner:
It’s all right. He's already nerded out on data analytics.

Phil:
Oh yeah.

Kate Turner:
So, I don’t mind a bit of techie.

Simon:
One of the difficulties we have is no peat free is the same. You know, all the brands, all the manufacturers are using different materials. They understand their process. And so if they're offering, a fertiliser, they can't offer it to fit every single peat free that's out there. So, you end up with a standard NPK figure.
But I think the message really is loud and clear. Feed little and often, rather than worrying too much about the content of the actual fertiliser. If you can use organic, amazing. There's plenty organic ones out there now, but know it's entirely up to you. But little enough that is better. And then you're not using as much.

Kate Turner:
Right. So that's a really good message to get out. Is this something that would ever interest you as a company to look at bringing out your own plant food, or just not going to go there?

Dan:
I'll never say never. But what we do is growing media. And we want to continue to do that and do that well.

Kate Turner:
Do the best you can. Brilliant.

Phil:
You mentioned that, some garden centres are doing really well, and some have got a long way to go. Is there any best practice that you've seen that you think, actually, if others could be doing more of this, then that would really help?

Simon:
I mean, I spend a lot of time in garden centres just walking around. I’m one of the sad people that’s there every weekend. I'm very lucky to have Bents next to me, which is enormous. And I think… Signage is key. Clear, succinct information. That’s easy to see. And actually, we all need to be saying the exact same thing, because if one garden centre says one thing about feed and another says another, the consumer just gets confused. So, if we can all collaborate on communication. Tick. You know, it's easier to get it out there.

Phil:
Right. And so that's, I guess, where, this organisation that you were saying about: Sizzle, this is where you're all coming together, and you can talk. And that is an overarching, clear communication that you're all pushing the same message.

Simon:
Totally, yeah. So that was I mean, the first thing we did was, peat free communications group and that was where we included everyone. And we put out, I think it was 10,000 leaflets across the UK which just had simple tips. You were part of that.

Dan:
Yeah.

Simon:
The RHS was endorsing it as well. So yeah, we just need to continue that momentum.
And after Glee and Four Oaks, I can start getting back into some of those elements as well. To get that going again.

Dan:
You also produce the, flyers didn't you? The tips that you put in garden centres that you can, you know, access.

Simon:
Every little helps, as Tesco say.

Kate Turner:
It’s true though isn’t it.

Simon:
I mean, I always say it's not a sexy subject and that makes it quite difficult to communicate to the consumer. So, it does have to be simple, straightforward and, you know, accessible to everyone.

Kate Turner:
Yeah. So, have you noticed a shift in what trade buyers are asking for? Is sustainability conversations, is it still there? Is it still important? Or is it volume and price?

Dan:
I think there's a big mixture, in our market, some, some are very, keen to stock sustainably sourced products. And there are others that just want to know the price and how quickly you can get it there.

Kate Turner:
You can get it to them, Right.

Phil:
So, I just want to sort of capture your final thoughts on Glee this year. So, what do you feel that you're walking away with?

Dan:
I feel we're walking away with lots of people that now know who we are, that perhaps didn't before. They they've been to our stand, they've seen the branding, the bag designs, the new look…

Phil:
It’s so… I mean, I’m going to go on about it again. But, it is so eye catching. I think if you walk down the aisle there, you cannot miss it. And I think you're drawn into it much more than the branding was previously. I think previously you could walk past it, but I don't think you can now.

Dan:
No, no. People still are. And they're struggling because I try and grab them.

Phil:
You rugby tackle them!

Dan:
It is harder for them to try and ignore us now.

Simon:
And there won't be any issue with these shirts!

Dan:
So, I think, to sum up, I think we're being taken more seriously in the industry now. As proper players. You know, we know what we're doing. And we love what we do.

Phil:
Yeah. You've really upped your game, especially in being seen and that visual presence that you've got.

Dan:
Yeah.

Phil:
I think that just about wraps things up. So thank you so much, both of you for coming and joining us today. It's been, a real pleasure to speak to you again and find out more about what you're doing. But, especially to see the new look for Duston’s it’s been great.

Simon:
Thank you so much.

Kate Turner:
Thank you.

Dan:
Thank you for having us back. Thank you.

Phil;
Okay, so I'm here with Brady from, QwickHose, and, Brady, why don't you tell us a little bit about what you've got here on the stand?

Brady:
Absolutely. So here at QwickHose, we redesigned the traditional hose fitting; instead of the ring of fiddly, breakable teeth that tend to snap, fold in o pop off. We've redesigned it with a dual grip clamping system. Really simple. Slides over clamp shut, fastens up. Universally compatible and all made in the UK as well.

Phil:
And it's super tight, isn't it? You know the traditional, connectors which have teeth that break all the time. This, this just gets rid of that problem, doesn't it?

Brady:
Absolutely. There's no chance of it pulling off. Once it's on, it's on. Holds tight first time every time.

Phil:
And the stand looks really cool. It catches your eye for sure. Tell us a little bit about the rebrand that you've had done.

Brady:
Yeah, so, working with WrightObara, we've looked at our messaging, our brand identity, the fact that we're a challenger brand and standing out. So, we spent a lot of time making a bold new brand identity, focusing on sort of colours being eye catching. The messaging being really clear, saying bold statements and grabbing attention, and catching people's eyes.

Phil:
So how's the show going so far? Have you had any interest?

Brady:
Yeah, yeah, it's been good. There's lots of people walking around always having conversations. It's nice to get the new branding out there in the new look. Hopefully something will come of it.

Phil:
And you've got a new website as well in the same branding as well.

Brady:
Absolutely, we’ve just launched a new website, much cleaner, faster, slicker. All in the new brand refresh as well.

Phil:
Fantastic. Just wish you all the best for the rest of the show.

Brady:
Thank you very much Phil. Much appreciated.

Phil:
We are here with Kate Ebbens, the commercial business manager from Woodlodge. Welcome, Kate.

Kate Ebbens:
Thank you very much, lovely to be here.

Kate Turner:
So, Kate, you very recently joined Wood Lodge as the commercial business manager. So what's that journey been like so far?

Kate Ebbens:
Well, it's been so exciting. Rewarding journey so far. Woodlodge has such a huge reputation. A strong… very strong in the industry. This role has, given me a chance to work with a fantastic team, a wide range of customers. From day one, I was impressed by the scale and the operation of the company. Its commitment to innovation, sustainability and their service. And seeing how much thought and investment, goes into everything from product design through to merchandising support.

Phil:
It's actually a… it's a big business, isn't it?

Kate Ebbens:
It is. I think building those relationships is really, really important. If it's just with independents but also buying groups, but also the team as well. And yeah, I'm finding in my new place here at Woodlodge.

Phil:
Yeah. So for those of you, those of people are listeners who don't know the brand that well, how would you describe Woodlodge and its place in the garden sector?

Kate Ebbens:
So Woodlodge is one of the UK's leading suppliers of outdoor and indoor garden products, best known, I suppose, for its extensive planter collections. The business combines traditional craftsmanship with modern designs and works within most of the garden centres throughout the UK. From core everyday ranges through to now indoor house plant pots.

Kate Turner:
So that's quite a new one, is it?

Kate Ebbens:
A few years now of development. Christmas and furniture, they’re a couple of years into now. And I have just been helping, supporting, expanding their plastic, offering of planters. And alongside these, you know, the introduction of more customer service, more the merchandising is just key to Woodlodge's success.

Phil:
And, I mean, if merchandising is key to your success, the stand looks absolutely amazing. Some of the… the way things have being put together, the displays are just really beautiful.

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah. And that that takes a huge amount of work. So we mock it up at the yard in Tetbury.

Kate Turner:
Oh you do? Oh my goodness.

Kate Ebbens:
So we know it's place. We know how it should look because it's huge stand. We start Friday, finish Monday. And everything has to have a place where it can be seamlessly, walked by the customers, but also sales team can take those orders with ease. So it's key.

Phil:
As well as looking beautiful. It is huge. The stand is absolutely huge. I mean, have you got pretty much an example of every single SKU that you've got?

Kate Ebbens:
Yes. I think in the three categories that we have here today. So outdoor pots, indoor pots and houseplant pots and the novelty, collection of animals.

Kate Turner:
Chickens?

Katre Ebbens:
Yeah. Crazy Chick, came as a runner up in the Glee products. And actually we won decorative plant planter of the year with our new Liberty, plastic pot.

Phil:
Oh, fantastic.

Kate Turner:
Wonderful. So, have you launched anything? Well, I think you've probably answered that, but…

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah, this year, in the plastic collection alone, we have ranged over 300 recycled planters.

Kate Turner:
So we're talking recycled plastic here.

Kate Ebbens:
Recycled, yes. And Liberty is our best-selling product. And then we've just added to that collection and other, you know, innovative plastics that, I think the for me is just to assure that the brightness is there, the colour blocking of the product and enabling a consumer to buy with ease. And that increases the speed of buy.

Phil:
Yeah. Absolutely. So the market's changed a lot over recent years. What trends are you seeing in garden retail right now. And how's Woodlodge actually responding to those changing trends.

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah. Garden retail has definitely evolved over recent years. Customers are more design conscious, sustainability minded and, value driven than ever before. We're seeing strong demand for products with style, affordability and, and shift towards the environmental responsibilities. I think with our new collection of plastic, recycled planters and the point of sale, point of sale is really important to get that message.
And also enable the customer to be able to see it within store.

Phil:
Right, absolutely. So have you seen, sort of maybe a younger demographic coming in with, with houseplants and the like? Because you said you’re bringing indoor plants, houseplant pots.

Kate Ebbens:
Definitely. Another big trend is the indoor and outdoor living, I think for people and, and wanting the same kind of planter, in their house. I think our consumer is really also looking at colours and what's matching with their furniture a lot more of their kitchen. Because kitchens are much more colourful than they used to be. So, there’s this huge opportunity to have a, to have probably beauty inside of your home. And combining that also with outside.

Kate Turner:
Going outside. So is there anything in particular that you're seeing buyers and retailers asking for this season? And conversely do you think there's anything they're not asking for yet but that they should be?

Phil:
Ooh I like that.

Kate Ebbens:
I think this season; buyers are really focussed on sustainability and value. Our plant pots that we're trying to range - range from a £9.99 pot through to, just under £50, for a 55-centimetre pot. So, you know, they are looking for a strong, offer as well as their environmental story as well. But I think we need to join things up a little bit more with categories and growth. And buyers look to outdoor pots as an isolation when we need to bring it all together a little bit more. I think there's still a focus on sustainability and affordable, but it's a bigger conversation to be had within all the ranges. And also, for the consumer to understand what suppliers are offering and what garden centres then can make them into so they actually buy it.

Kate Turner:
Can I ask, do you have a design team on board or do you outsource the pots? And you…

Kate Ebbens:
No, it's all done in-house.

Kate Turner:
Oh it is, right? Oh I didn't know that. So that's exciting to see that.

Kate Ebbens:
Yes. It's… yeah. It's formidable. It really is. Richard and Michael, Michael being the owner of Woodlodge, Richard's been in Woodlodge, I think, going on over 28 years. And now, they're investing in a team to support the indoor collection. The plastic collection. Christmas and, furniture.

Kate Turner:
It’s a big company with a big... Where are they based?

Kate Ebbens:
In Tetbury.

Kate Turner:
Oh. Tetbury, yes, you did say actually.

Kate Ebbens
It's beautiful in the Cotswolds.

Kate Turner:
Lovely. Oh, wonderful.

Phil:
Fantastic. And we're here at Glee, how’s Glee been for you?

Kate Ebbens:
Unbelievable. I have a big smile. It has been… our collections, I would say especially our houseplant pots and our plastic have been really, really well received. And just.. the stand is a joy to be able to take people around and. Yes. It's been a really lovely three days.

Phil:
And commercially successful?

Kate Ebbens:
Yes.

Phil:
And do you know what? That's really important, isn't it?

Kate Turner:
Well, that's what this is about, Glee

Kate Ebbens:
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely.

Kate Turner:
The end of the day, that's what we want.

Phil:
Yes. So, Kate, if anybody knows you at all, they'll know that you're also an incredible ambassador for Greenfingers Charity. In 2024, you ran 5K every single day for the whole year to raise funds. But next year, you're going even bigger. Well, higher anyway. You're part of an expedition to climb Kilimanjaro and all to raise funds for the Green fingers Charity. How did that idea come about?

Kate Ebbens:
Well, yes, I ran every day last year.

Kate Turner:
And have you recovered yet?

Kate Ebbens:
I think a lot's happened to me this this year, at the beginning of the year and having to change businesses. And joining Woodlodge as well. I love being outside. So, for me, on the back of running, I just wanted to do one more thing. And, I just want to make sure that we can reach, outside of the industry a little bit with Greenfingers as well.
So the idea of Kilimanjaro came by talking to colleagues and friends in the industry who shared the same passion for me, you know, with Greenfingers. And it felt kind of the perfect step in which to literally climb to new heights. It's a huge personal challenge for me. And more importantly, it's also the way I want to show the industry that you can do things. I hope this is a blueprint, that then can be taken and executed maybe in a couple of year’s time with like walking the Great Wall of China or something like that.
But I have… For me, it's. Yeah. Turning every step up that mountain to fund, a Greenfinger’s garden. I had a little bit of pressure put on me recently and say: hey Kate why don't you try and raise a hundred k? And have a Kilimanjaro garden.
But we have 18 amazing people. And they range from ages 19 up to 60 and across, male and female.

Phil:
And, for anybody who's watching this video, you are wearing a very subtle pink top. And for those people who are listening, it is quite lurid, but it is a Kilimanjaro, Greenfingers Charity Trek type top. Very eye catching. And, you certainly…

Kate Ebbens:
You’ve got a QR code on the back.

Kate Turner:
So, you can start fundraising already. People can start donating I mean.

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah, definitely. So, look, this is to me, this is a combination of a passion for Greenfingers, a passion for this industry. And I like to be motivated as well. So, I think the importance is ensuring that we are bright, visible. I climbed Ben Nevis two weekends ago, and I kind of noticed those charity people who were climbing that day were all quite bright. And previously we've had white T-shirts, and I just thought no. And also Greenfingers recently has been going to other events dressed with a pink outfit. So, I thought, okay, this is important now. So yes, we need to be all in pink.

Phil:
I love it.

Kate Turner:
So, what does the training for something like that look like? How are you managing to fit all this - I mean, you’ve got a brand new job. It's a big job. How on earth are you fitting all this alongside your work?

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah, it's going to be hard. It's going to be hard. We have Charity Challenge are the company that we are going with. They have, helped, Comic Relief and lots of companies go up Kilimanjaro. So, their expertise, they’ve 25 years of doing this as well, so they've given us key things to do.
We have a team WhatsApp group now, and we're starting to now kind of talk. For us, it's about, learning to climb. It will be learning to be able to walk six hours a day over eight days. Mentally is what I've been told. You can be physically fit. You've got altitude in which to cope with as well.
But mentally that last day of summiting apparently is the hardest because you have altitudes, to cope with. And also, you've been climbing by them for seven days, sleeping rough, and probably eating quite very, bland food. So yeah, mentally will be the big thing. But I always when I ran last year on all those days where it was raining, boiling hot.
All I thought about were the families that I saw within the hospices and what can, Greenfingers do for those families and for the staff within the hospices.

Phil:
Yeah, but to be fair, that's running for like 30, 40 minutes. That's not climbing for six hours.

Kate Ebbens:
No, it's not climbing for six hours. But we've got the likes of Bob Marley who are going to…

Phil:
Bob Marley's coming? Oh that's amazing.

Kate Turner:
Oh goodness. I didn't know that. I know, Matt Jones of Sipcam and his wife. But oh my goodness, he’ll keep the spirits up.

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah we've got some big characters in our group. And I'm sure, you know, it's going to be tough. But we know what we're going to do. We've got eight and a bit months in which to get ready for the 12th of June 2026. We need to raise between. Yes, hopefully between the 18 of us will raise the £100K. And that will also help us to keep climbing those steps.

Kate Turner:
Yeah, absolutely. So can I just ask when you, when you, sign up to do something like this, do you have to promise to raise a certain amount in order to, even just to get the plane over there? Because just organising something like this it’s quite costly.

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah, we're funding it ourselves. Each person will fund their travel which is not cheap.

Kate Turner:
Not cheap - no.

Kate Ebbens:
But I wanted to do it with a professional company because I didn't want the responsibility of anything happening. I just got enough to do!

Kate Turner:
So when you say you want - was this your idea? This has been your brainchild, ah okay. We need to push that ,that this this is actually the brainchild of Kay Ebbens. You’re not just doing it.

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah, I launched it at the GCA conference last January, and I think I was on a back of a high. I've now come down to earth It's not looking so rosy! But I know that if we can do this and we're successful, and my aim is also to try and get the team on national TV prior to us going, or at least an ambassador, or, anybody out of Greenfingers who can represent us. So, yes.

Kate Turner:
And Woodlodge are supporting you?

Kate Ebbens:
Oh yes, Michael will be supporting. And Woodlodge as well, thet will be one of my main sponsors.

Phil:
And you mentioned that there are 18 of you in your team. Are they all from across the industry, the garden sector or…?

Kate Ebbens:
Primarily - there's a few, so my partner Matt is doing it. He works in the kitchen and bathroom sectors. So, we're trying to just reach out slightly, and my sister and brother are doing as well. So, we climbed Ben Nevis the other day. We love walking together. And also, my brother-in-law and, and sister-in-law have both had a child who had leukaemia at two years old and they did a lot of fundraising in Cambridge.
But the rest of us are pretty much either garden centre, supplier, plants: new leaf. A father and… no a husband and wife are doing it. But I didn't bully anybody into this. I have made sure that they really want to do it.

Kate Turner:
They know what they’re taking on.

Kate Ebbens:
They know why they’re doing it. Because you've got to be able to do it yourself.

Phil:
So, we're still a little way out from the actual expedition. What's keeping you motivated at the minute?
So, for the minute, we go to a hospice on the 16th of October. Where you're going to be hopefully filming aren’t you?

Phil:
We are going to be there.

Kate Ebbens:
Acorn's Hospice, for me was one I went to with Bob Marley last year and did a run round. And I met, a few of the patients there. And at that point, the garden hadn't even been touched. So, we go back and we're going to see this garden. For me, that's October.
And then we've got plans. So, November, December, we've got a crazy plan to hopefully - Alan Roper for Blue Diamond has taken over a new garden centre on the Isle of White. We're going to walk the Isle of Wight on a long weekend, apparently you can do it in two and a half days. So that will be another focus.
We've got the Garden Press event, in February, where Heidi and I will be selling raffle tickets and promoting to the press what we're doing. We've got, Garden Re-leaf Day in March where the team will be coming together, probably for the first time. And we're walking up there and there's other people doing different things. So somebody’s doing the three peaks, I've heard somebody’s doing the Yorkshire Peaks on their own, some are cycling, so throughout this, Greenfingers will have a page on their website, hopefully in the next few weeks it will have pictures of us all and why we why we're doing this. And also, it will say what everybody's kind of been doing over the next eight and a half months.

Phil:
Right. Well, we will as a podcast, we'll make sure we keep plugging it regularly for you to try and help drive that, fundraising for sure.

Kate Ebbens:
Thank you very much.

Kate Turner
So, what other ways can people, help support you?

Kate Ebbens:
We have a few headline sponsors that we're looking for. This is the kit that we need is quite expensive. So, our summit jacket, our cover that will go on the back of our rucksack. I thought we could have really nicely logo’d. Somebody supported us with our beanie already. Half-zipped fleece, things like that. I would like some headline sponsors where they get their logo on, and obviously we're taking them up Kilimanjaro.
And then other people sponsoring us, sharing what we're doing. I think that's what the reach is so important. If you can't donate, please just keep watching what we're doing.

Kate Turner:
And share, share, share.

Kate Ebbens:
Share what we're doing.

Phil:
Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. I mean, Greenfingers is such a lovely charity. I actually did some filming down, at the Chestnut Tree House hospice, which is, down in the South coast and, it was a really lovely day that I had down there. And before I went, I was actually thinking because Linda obviously involved, Linda Petrons, is involved in the charity day in, day out and say, how on earth does she do it? How on earth does she keep going? And I went down and I spent the day down there and actually, talking to all the people. So, we talked to the, the ground staff who are in charge of the maintenance of the gardens, a big gardens down there and, also, some of the hospice staff, and people from the charity and all sorts of people. But actually, it was a joyful experience, which I wasn't expecting. I really wasn't expecting how joyful it is, because I guess partly because, the way children's hospices are, they're not like adult hospices where it's the end of life and that's it.
Children go for respite care year after year. It's that there for children with life limiting conditions.

Kate Ebbens:
Absolutely.

Phil:
It's not just the end of life.

Kate Ebbens:
No it isn't. And I think yeah, definitely my experience - I visited a few last year as part of my running and to raise that £30,000, I think there were places where I was quite sad. I didn't realise that babies go there.

Phil:
Yeah.

Kate Ebbens:
You know, and they're taken out of hospital. However, but there's also fantastic experiences and people to see as well, whose parents just need a break. But it takes those parents a lot to leave their children.

Kate Turner:
To walk away.

Kate Ebbens:
To walk away even if it's for 12 hours.

Phil:
Incredible.

Kate Ebbens:
Yeah, it really is it. You know, people have no idea what's needed to even keep the hospices going, let alone that outside space.

Kate Turner:
Yeah, absolutely.

Phil:
And those outside spaces just offer that opportunity for, the young people who are under the care of the hospice to maybe experience things that they haven't been able to experience before: playing with their siblings.

Kate Ebbens:
Yes, absolutely. So again at Acorns, when I was there, there was a family and, a mother looking after her very, disabled baby. And the two boys, they live in a flat, in Birmingham. And, they didn't have any access. So they're playing football in the garden, and they've got that time. So also helps siblings.

Kate Turner:
It's about families, and I think you said earlier, it’s about staff as well. It’s an important place for staff to go.

Kate Ebbens:
Yes, definitely. Definitely. Without a doubt.

Kate Turner:
So what can listeners follow your Kilimanjaro journey and support the Greenfingers campaign?

Kater Ebbens:
They can support by going to the website. I think that will give you, a huge amount of information. We will have our own page. We're also going to put our links to our social medias on there as well. I think that's the best way we'll have QR codes where you can, scan and go to our just-giving pages support us in that way.
But supporter is also, like I said to you, mainly is just spreading the word. Spreading the Greenfingers word, you know, and that green hand that I had tattooed, when I finished my event, is underneath… and when I'm struggling, and I think, you know, this was the reason why I did it. And, Greenfingers will always be my charity. And I'll do everything I can to support and help.

Phil:
Well, I think what you're doing is absolutely amazing.

Kate Turner:
It really is.

Kate Ebbens:
It’s also nuts!

Phil:
Well there is that too!
Well, thank you so much, Kate, for coming to see us today.

Kate Ebbens:
Thank you.

PhiL:
Yeah. And just wish you all the best with the training and the trek next year. It's going to be fantastic.

Kate Ebbens:
I'll keep in touch.

Kate Turner:
Please do.

Phil:
Please do subscribe, like and review us on your podcast platform of choice – it only takes a moment, and it helps us to make the podcast possible. If you found this episode useful, do spread the word and share it with your colleagues. Signing up to our mailing list at theunderground.fm will mean that you’ll receive insight and news and new episodes, straight to your inbox.

The Underground podcast is produced by WrightObara a creative marketing agency for home and garden brands. The production at Glee doesn’t happen without a team of people behind it, so my thanks goes to:
Matt Mien and Keterina Albanese from the Glee team for their help and assistance.
Technical production Paul Withers
Production Assistant Josh Wright
Onsite Videography Ben Holmes
Graphic Design and Marketing Support Claire Appleby
The Underground logo was created by Jan Obara
The podcast booth was constructed with the support of Toby Noyce of Xtreme Graphics
And of course, my thanks goes to my brilliant co-host Kate Turner, the gardener guru.
Thanks for listening.