Phil:
Hi, and welcome to The Underground, the official podcast partner of Glee 2025. I’m Phil Wright and together with my co-host Kate Turner we took our podcast booth to the Glee show in Birmingham to capture a snapshot of the industry and take the pulse of what’s going on in the garden sector right now.

For those brands who create products for the garden sector GIMA offers a wealth of advice and support. In this episode we chat with GIMA membership ambassador Tony Kersey and also new member and GIMA seed corn fund winner, Belle Richardson from SealStop.

Welcome, Tony.

Tony:
Thank you.

Kate:
Morning Tony.

Tony:
Good morning to you both.

Phil:
Tony, you've had a distinguished career, now, that is not saying that you're old? Okay? But you've had a distinguished career in the industry, can you tell us a bit about your background and what your role is now?

Tony:
Okay. Well, I started off at Sainsbury's in 1976.
The previous weekend I'd been running Crystal Palace and the official starter for my race was the guy who was interviewing me for a role at Sainsbury's. So, within two minutes of a question, we were talking about Athletics, Coe and Ovett, and with that - knock on the door, interview's over – so, Gordon turned to me and says, we haven't actually asked you any questions about this job, but, can you start Monday?
So that was the start of my Sainsbury’s career.

Phil:
Wow.

Tony:
So, I was at Sainsbury's for ten years. Mostly in the buying department by the time it got to ‘88. My buying director had moved to Homebase, and he was the first buying director at Homebase that we had 30 plus stores at the time. So, I got a phone call. Would you like to come and, interview for a role at Homebase?
So, long story short, Halloween of 1988. I joined Homebase.
In many roles across the years: paint, gardening, bathrooms - and then I came back to gardening in 2002.
And remained in the garden and seasonal sector through to my semi-retirement last year.

Kate:
What drew you to the, the role of membership ambassador of GIMA?

Tony:
Well, I've worked with GIMA and I've known Vicky for near on 20 years. So, I've worked with GIMA members, and I've been involved with, GIMA and I've been to many of their events and also was involved in many of the hosted meetings. So, I was aware of GIMA. Love the brand, love the categories. So, when I got to semi-retirement last year, I thought: I'm not ready to hang up my trowel.
And my wife definitely wasn't expecting me to hang around the house all day. So, one of the phone calls to make was to Vicky, and within literally weeks, I joined in the week before Glee last year.

Phil:
Right, that was a baptism of fire!

Tony:
A baptism of fire at Glee last year, and the difference being, obviously I've been here as a buyer before where you turn up mid-morning on day one, you go out for a lovely meal in the evening with a supplier.

Kate:
Yes, wined and dined.

Tony:
Next day you spend half a day, then you disappear. Here, I'm now here as an exhibitor, so I'm here from set up all the way through to in this play.

Phil:
It's a very different beast, isn't it?

Tony:
The feet don't like it?

Kate:
No, tell me about it.

Phil:
So, Tony, how does your experience at Homebase, help you support and understand the members from GIMA today?

Tony:
I think there's a number of answers to that one. I've dealt with many suppliers, both small and large. As a buyer. I've seen their failings and their successes. So, for me, it's a case of using the experience I've had from my buying career and commercial, to nurture and support many of our, new clients and existing.
And, what we've actually found in the last year, we've taken on 80 new members since Glee last year.

Phil:
That’s amazing isn’t it.

Tony:
Many of them are small to medium size - that need nurturing and need support. So, I'm able to provide that or provide them the directions to get the answers.

Kate:
Has there always been a membership ambassador. Or was your role… was it created with you in mind?

Tony:
They hadn't had one for a few years, but it was previously Colin Wetherley-Mein. So I think, he retired a couple of years ago. So, in the meantime, the role has been vacant. So, I jumped into the role last September.

Kate:
So, are there any things you wish suppliers had understood better when you were a buyer and vice versa?

Tony:
I think there is more collaboration in more recent years than it has been prior to Covid and since Covid. And I think the buying teams and the and the manufacturing companies are more closely networked. I think if you go back 20 years, it was more of an us and them and many more retailers at the time, and they were very, very hungry for market share.
So therefore, you were having to go hard negotiations with manufacturers while also looking at new opportunities. So, in the 2000’s, retailers were looking more for own brands and sourcing overseas. So, any of those ranges that were developed were at the expense of branded or UK company listings. So, there was much less collaboration in the earlier days.

Phil:
All to do with the bottom line at that point wasn’t it?

Tony:
Absolutely, and the same exists now. But I think what you're finding now is there's greater need for retailers and manufacturing companies to work closer to fulfil the sort of a mutual end result.

Phil:
Okay. What would you say is driving that? Is that sort of, resilience in the supply chain or other reasons?

Tony:
I think there's a few things. Number one, you need newness. You know, within newness, there's various things like sustainability, recycling and development first to market. So many of the retailers don't maybe have the expertise or the knowledge to be able to support and develop new products. So, they need to work clever in the partnership to actually deliver the end results.

Phil:
Okay. So GIMA has a big presence here and not just your own stand, but you've got a big GIMA village of members all exhibiting. So, what sort of events are you doing or showcasing support initiatives or just tell me about some of the things that you've got going on as GIMA here at Glee this year?

Tony:
Well, firstly, we've got our largest ever, GIMA attendance at the show. So, we've got over, I think 104 GIMA Exhibitors at the show.

Phil:
That's astounding isn't it?

Tony:
The GIMA Village itself. I think we've got 70 stands around the lounge, which again is probably the biggest footprint we've had. Throughout this year, we've actually had record breaking attendances at a number of our events. Be it the, AGM early this year, the awards judging day back in June, we had hundreds of submissions.
But also at the show here we have the biggest GIMA Lounge and Exhibitor Zone. So we've got over 70, pitches. And also, within the overall, Glee, we've got over 104 exhibitors to the show, which is the biggest ever. And this is all in recognition of the fact we've now got 214 members, which is 80 more than this time last year.
So it's a huge move year on year. Other examples: We've got the GIMA Awards in November. This time last year we were still looking for a probably 100 - 150 extra bums on seats. We are literally at sell out. So, there is a fantastic move at the moment and fantastic, urge to actually join GIMA.
And already at the show this morning, I've already had half a dozen enquiries.

Phil:
Wow. That's amazing. I mean, not being funny, but it's just gone 10:00, isn't it? So that is incredible.

Tony:
Yes. Great news. It's great news for us all.

Kate:
So, we’re talking about Glee. How important is Glee for your GIMA members?

Tony:
It's the one main show in the year where members can exhibit and showcase newness and their product portfolio to buyers, retailers and company owners. And I think, you can see it with the numbers that have appeared this year to exhibit. Obviously over the next three days, hopeful that we see similar footfall increases. Because if you've got great new products, you need the buyers here to see those products, to see them in their shops next season.

Phil:
You mentioned that, of the 80 new members that you've got in GIMA, a lot of them are small or new businesses. So how does GIMA help those businesses prepare and make the most of a trade show like this?

Tony:
That's partly my role. Okay, so coming in as membership ambassador, I'm here to nurture and support new members. And so once we've signed on a new member, we then have an introductory meeting where I will take down the actions. Maybe it's actions around the show, maybe it's actions around wanting to jump on board with our buddy scheme.
So, we take those actions and then we follow them up with a course of as actions to support those new members. Certainly here, having so many new members in and around the lounge, shows that there is a need to nurture and support new businesses. And already half the stands that are here this week are non-GIMA members.
So, it does give us the opportunity to reach out to many more members.

Phil:
You mentioned there about the buddy scheme. Just tell me a little bit about that because that sounds quite interesting.

Tony:
It's a scheme that Jenny Douthwaite, who was our previous president, introduced a few years ago. So, any company coming on board that needs specific help, it may be marketing, it may be the way you present products or just general support where you can feed that into the council and then we find a non-competing council member or somebody outside the council because it's not always going to be that we've got the specialist support within the council to actually support that question.
So, we review the request, it goes into council and then we pinpoint somebody who's got the expertise to actually support.

Phil:
So it's a bit like a mentoring type scheme. That's fantastic.

Tony:
Yes.
Kate:
So, Tony, we have seen a stronger start to the year after two, well let's face it, bloody awful ones. Are you seeing more optimism among members and retailers?

Tony:
I think if you talk to the Hyve team and from what I've seen in the last few weeks, the, performance this year has generated more interest. And there's more sort of.. you can already hear it in the show today. More of a hubbub in terms of a vibe. And I think we've seen many more late entries to exhibit at Glee this year.
And I think it's also meant that many businesses have been able to clear the decks of old ranges and old stock, so that what you’re going to see here at the show today is much more newness, ready for the 2026 season.

Phil:
Right. Fantastic. So that's the highs. What about what about the lows? What are the challenges that, businesses in the sector are facing at the moment?

Tony:
Where do I start?

Phil:
Is it a long list?

Kate:
How long have we got?

Tony:
I promise not to mention Trump. There are obviously many economic pressures, be it in terms of the supply chain. Be it in the case of raw materials, even the shipping of products. Container prices are starting to escalate again. And then you can sense obviously, the, cost of energy has recently risen once again. And talk of further rises in the autumn. That along with national insurance and various taxes, has put a lot of pressure onto businesses.
So ultimately it's only going to add to inflation because no business can compensate and allow for that sort of cost into their structure without passing it onto to customers. So, the worry will be next year, the fact that you will see an increase in prices.
Therefore, what does that do to the spending power and the money in the pocket of the customers in going into shops to buy seasonal products next season.

Kate:
Do you think that the supplier/retailer dynamic is shifting because of these challenges?

Tony:
Indeed. The way I would say it is you've now got a brick and mortar and the marketplace website market. So, you've got your typical brick and mortar businesses that are turning up today to buy and range products. But you're starting to get a growing presence of, marketplace retailers. You've got your B&Qs you've got your Wickes’s you've got your Robert Dyas’s to name a few.
Then you mentioned all of the grocers, and I was actually at a Walmart presentation last week.

Phil:
Yeah, I was surprised about that.

Tony:
Where they're launching an office in the UK to service businesses wanting to get into the American market. So for me, I think it’s twofold. I think the dynamic is moving towards the requirements for a business to look at a two-pronged approach, one to servicing brick and mortar business and then one to service the e-commerce business.
And for many of the retailers, they have two distinctly different trading teams. So, from a manufacturers point of view, they need to be thinking about how they manage both a brick and mortar set of people and then an e-commerce, which tend to talk totally different languages.

Phil:
I was going to say, so that's really interesting. So, if you're if you manage to get into the bricks and mortar, premises and you think you made it, that doesn't necessarily mean you've automatically got in with the e-commerce team.

Tony:
Exactly. You’ve got two different routes. And of course, within a store you're talking maybe a contracted range, whereas if you go and get on board with, an e-commerce range, effectively you're talking your whole portfolio. So, you can have your entire product range on a retailer's website.

Phil:
Yeah, because they don't have the same constraints?

Tony:
No.

Phil:
That's really interesting. So, we talked about new members joining GIMA what's probably the most surprising thing that you found that when somebody joined that they discover when they've become a member of GIMA.

Tony:
I think what surprises most is with the packed schedule of events that we run in a year. That it's run by a team of three people.
So it takes a lot of planning, a lot of conversation. But, you've got three people that are dedicated to supporting GIMA and its members to actually deliver a full agenda.

Phil:
Comprehensive.

Tony:
Comprehensive. And this year has probably surpassed most. And obviously the pressure is now on, to see how we replicate that in 2026.

Phil:
Yeah. So you don't stop do you? It’s a continual process.

Tony:
There's no downtime in our schedule.

Kate:
So, looking back Tony what would you say has given you the most satisfaction in your career so far?

Tony:
I think similar to the way I worked within my commercial team. I love mentoring and bringing people on and development. I'm using that philosophy to actually support the newer members that are coming on board. And as I've mentioned, we've had many small and medium sized businesses that need that help. And it's something that, it's in my psyche almost to actually go out there and actually help and support.
So give me a challenge and I will support that business.

Phil:
Yeah, that's lovely to hear. And I think that actually leads me on to my next question. So what would you say to someone who's early in their garden industry career, who's just walked into Glee for the first time?

Tony:
I would advise newcomers to come in with an air of curiosity. Ask questions. Walk and talk to the show. And don't hesitate to ask questions, and if they need support, come to the GIMA lounge, because there's a team of people there that are willing to support and help those individuals.

Phil:
Absolutely. And I think, I mean, we've noticed it and so many people that we've talked to on the podcast have said what a friendly and welcoming industry it is. And willing to share, you know, even people who you’d think we're competitors, they're actually willing to share insights and best practice. And have you seen that as well?

Tony:
Absolutely. Last year was my first Glee as an exhibitor. So last year, it was almost… I classify myself as a poacher turned gamekeeper. So I was from the buyer’s fraternity. Now, I’m on the exhibitor side, working with the suppliers. But, for me, it's really about the friendliness. The openness. Yes. Look, there's competitors. But ultimately, everybody's after the same end result. Success.

Phil:
Absolutely. There's enough to go around.

Tony:
Yes.

Kate:
So how do people get in touch with GIMA to find out more?

Tony:
Many ways. The first is via our website. Which is the GIMA website. And on there, there are pages upon pages of support and advice on what we offer in terms of events, what benefits and services we provide. They can also email on [email protected] or they can email me directly on [email protected].

Phil:
Fantastic. Right. Well I think that just about wraps things up Tony, I think you've been a fantastic guest. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and what GIMA have been doing here. It's been really interesting.

Tony:
Appreciate it. Thank you very much.

Kate:
Thanks, Tony.

Tony:
Thank you.

Kate:
Okay. So I I'm here on the Evergreen Garden Care stand and I'm joined by Jude and Nick the Evergreen - what would you say?

Jude:
Garden Centre Team

Kate:
Gaden Centre Team. So just tell us, how are you finding, the show this year?

Jude:
Fantastic. This year. Amazing turnout. The new hall layout really works for the show. There’s a lot of energy a lot of buzz. Traffic coming through to where we are has been amazing. And the response to us being here again in a big way. It's been overwhelmingly positive.

Kate:
So now I'm going to ask you a slightly difficult question. If there's one thing you could change about Glee, what would it be?

Nick:
Look, we've been we got really busy on day one. Really busy. I mean, there was a moment yesterday when we looked up and there wasn't a single free person. I wish we could spread the customers out a little bit over the two days, but today's been deceptively busy. There's been more space on the stand, but everyone's been dealing with people at the same time. So, I think if we could somehow spread our demand of time over the two days, that would be really special.

Kate:
So, Jude, is there anything exciting happening with Evergreen For 2026?

Jude:
There is, so for 2026, we are back on TV and we're back on TV in a big way, relaunching our new look and feel for Miracle-Gro and also our Miracle-Gro guarantee, which is a guarantee for bigger plants, more leaves and more flowers. No quibble.

Kate:
That’s a big ask, isn't it?

Jude:
It is. But we've got the confidence in our quality, and we had to put money where our mouth is with consumers and give them the confidence that everybody can give gardening a go.

Nick:
And we've even stamped it on a chocolate coin for proof.

Kate:
I think I might have to try a few of those.

Jude:
Which have all gone, incidentally, halfway through.

Kate:
Damn.

Nick:
We’re out of those.

Kate:
So, Nick, I'm going to ask you if there is one change that you would like to see and you as well Jude, in the garden retail sector over the next few years, what would it be?

Nick:
I think that we have a responsibility to really look after our garden centre customers. I think we've got such an important channel to get people off the sofa and into the category for the first time, it's our job to provide products and price points, and pack sizes and formats that we can really do that for them, but educate them at the same time.

Kate:
And you Jude anything else?

Jude:
Echoing Nick's final point, I think education of the consumer and demystifying - what does have the potential to be quite confusing category - particularly in weed killers and controls where there's a plethora of options out there: formats, sizes, active ingredients. It's a responsibility of ours to demystify that, educate the consumer using innovative, easy to understand point of sale and really drive people into gardening to make Britain grow again.

Kate:
That is brilliant. I don't think we need to ask any more. Thank you so much gents. Enjoy the rest of the show.

Jude:
Our pleasure, thank you.

Phil:
And we are ecstatic to be joined this morning by Belle Richardson, the founder and inventor of the Seal Stop. Welcome, Belle.

Belle:
Thank you, it’s an honour to be on here. So thank you so much.

Kate:
Lovely to meet you, Belle.

Phil:
So, let's start by saying congratulations, Belle, because you are the winner of this year's GIMA’s seed corn fund. So well done for that is brilliant. You started your life as a Radiographer before becoming, an inventor and creating technology.

Kate:
Started her life?

Phil:
Started your working life.

Kate:
Wow, that’s a child genius!

Phil:
Prior to inventing, you were a radiographer. But then you created this product Seal Stop. What was the: I need to fix this moment that led you to create the product?

Belle:
So. Yeah. So, like you said, I was a radiographer in the NHS for 11 years before inventing this. So, we live on a smallholding in Yorkshire. So, we have lots of animals basically, and we grow our own fruit and veg. So, I'm forever filling up buckets, troughs and containers and what would inevitably happen is I would pop my hosepipe in, walk away, get distracted and you come back to a flooded mess don’t you. There's nothing worse.
And I was doing this over and over again. And so it's my husband and I. So, Jason's a farrier, very practical, and sees this all the time. So yeah, it took us five years of coming from idea to actually launching the product. So that's how it came about.

Kate:
So, I know this is going to be a little bit tough because we're on the podcast. But can you describe to our listeners how Seal Stop works?

Belle:
Yeah, of course I can. So, I've got one in front of me. So anyone who's actually watching this will be able to see Seal Stop in action. So, I'll just open it up now, so it comes out with just the valve. And then you've got to undo the connector.

Kate:
And so it's a traditional kind of hosepipe connector.

Belle:
Yeah, so it will go onto a standard garden hose pipe. So, you put the holder on and then the connector. And then what happens is you attach your standard garden hose pipe to the connector.
And then it clips back onto its holder to give it stability on the bucket.
And then there's a groove here, which will sit on your bucket.

Kate:
That will go on the rim of the bucket.

Belle:
Yeah. Watering can, all you watering butt. And then what happens is turn on the tap, obviously. And then water will flow from these fins. And then what happens is, as the water level rise in your bucket, it will cause the float to rise up and shut off the water supply. So now you can walk away from it. There's no risk of wasting water. And you can now go spend more time in the garden, the watering cans ready for when you need it.

Kate:
Yeah, yeah, I like it.

Belle:
It's convenient and time saving.

Kate:
Can I take a look?

Belle:
Of course you can.

Kate:
So it's quite substantial, isn't it, Belle?

Belle:
Yeah, it had to be robust.

Kate:
Yeah. Yeah yeah.

Belle:
Because the lifestyle it's obviously having to cope with, it's outdoors. So therefore it has to be… yeah, copy with that kind of environment.

Kate:
And it stands up by itself. It looks nice.

Phil:
It's really attractive.

Kate:
It looks chunky.

Belle:
Yeah. Aesthetically it had to look good. Because at the day that still matters.

Kate:
Fortunately it does doesn't it. But but yeah you've done that and it works? That's the big thing. It does actually work.

Belle:
Yeah.

Kate:
How floods did you have whilst trying to come up with the prototype?

Belle:
Oh my life is so busy. With small kids and the ridiculous amount of animals we have. My life is busy, so like, daily. So , you just put it in, and I'm like, I'm making hay hay for the horses. And I'd be running back to change it over. So, yeah inevitably daily.

Kate:
Right. And you use this yourself and you find it… I won't say changed your life but made things a lot easier?

Belle:
Oh it's it's one of those products that once you've used it, you wonder how you ever coped before. And it was really interesting because my husband helped me set up, for Glee. And, he'd left it on - and not realised. And he was like, so that was been on all day.

Kate:
Oh I see, he’d left it on at home.

Belle:
Yeah, he’d forgot about it in the horses water tank. And he's like, oh my God thank goodness I had a Seal Stop on it. And yeah that was it.

Phil:
That's brilliant.

Kate:
Because is it's not just water wastage. It's cost now isn't it. Especially those on a water metre. Yeah.

Belle:
It doesn't take long to add up does it?

Phil:
Yeah, exactly.
So you here at Glee which is a garden sector exhibition. How do you see this working for gardeners?

Belle:
Oh it's so handy for gardeners. Especially with the weather we've had recently. So now we're relying on using mains water pressure, more is the way it’s going. And it's more important now than ever to only use what we need. And that's what Seal Stop, it’s a gap that Seal Stop is sealing basically. So, gardeners are using it obviously to… using their watering cans. So, you can have one filling while you use your other one and it's ready when you need it. People with dipping tanks are loving it. So, they're having it on their troughs, and it's automatically filling as you're taking the water out.
Having buckets ready so that you can dip your potted plants in, cleaning your boots at the day or your tools. When you actually break it down. We use water so much.
And Seal Stop’s just a guaranteed way that you're only using what you need.

Kate:
And it’s a silly thing - filling up a paddling pool. You know, with the kids in the summer. Things in your pond, all those kind of things.

Belle:
Koi pond keepers are absolutely loving it, because it's just a constant level valve, but it's reliable.

Kate:
Oh okay, love it. So, what does winning the, Seed Corn Fund 2025 mean to you?

Belle:
Everything. When I found out about that, I was ecstatic to get that kind of recognition when I'm new to the gardening world.
And it's unbelievable. And then the support that will come from that is brilliant. And the money is perfect timing. We've got a couple of garden centres who are just about to seal the deal with, but obviously I need to do my display units.
And I'm the person who just wants to get things right. And now to be able to have the funds that I can now put in a really cool display unit that's going to sell product for them. That's so exciting. So, honestly, I was over the moon when I found out about that.

Phil:
Yeah. I mean, I have to say, just looking at the packaging, you know, you've got really nice logo. You’ve obviously spent time looking at that, the colourways matching the products with the, packaging as well. Just, yeah. You've obviously been thinking long and hard about, how it all comes together and, works seamlessly and visually.

Belle:
Yeah. I live and breathe. This is, it’s ridiculous.

Kate:
So did you have help designing or was this come from you?

Belle:
Yes, so it's a combination of everything. Really? Yeah. So, I come up with all the designs and thoughts behind it, and then I try and pay professionals to make it look. Because I don't want to look… Although I'm a start at business, I don't want it to look cheap. The product's amazing and I want to do it justice.

Kate:
Yeah, I get that.

Phil:
So you've won the, seed corn Fund for this year from GIMA. How did you hear about the fund?

Belle:
I am actually part of GIMA. So that's how I heard about it. And when I first had a conversation with Tony, I said to him, I was like, Tony, I need to win this. Like, this will mean so much to my business. And, when I spoke to him afterwards, I was like, you've no idea how much this means to me, and I'm just forever grateful for them.

Kate:
Can I just rewind a little bit? So, what you said about through GIMA you found out about it? How did you find out about GIMA? If you have nothing to do with the gardening world.

Belle:
Ah, this is even longer story.

Phil:
That's great. We’ve got all day.

Kate:
No we haven't!

Phil:
Oh no!

Belle:
So basically, my father met Will Armitage, shooting, and he casually mentioned him in passing conversation months later. Right. I looked Will up on LinkedIn and I was like, I need this man. Like, he is everything I need in the gardening world, his contacts, his mentoring, his coaching, he has been unbelievable at boosting me in this market and I am forever grateful to that man.
So obviously Will then recommended me to become part of GIMA and the Young People in Horticultural Association as well.

Phil:
Do you know what we spoke to Will on the podcast only…

Kate:
Not that long ago.

Phil:
Not that long ago. And he said that his superpower is being helpful to other people. You know, he will do anything he can to help other people so that that's really nice to hear.

Belle:
He’s the kindest man. He is, honestly, I lean on him probably too much, because he is the most amazing support.

Kate:
So he’s still involved in you…

Belle:
He's currently looking after my stand as we speak – that’s the kind of man he is.

Kate:
And Tony, Tony Kersey from GIMA, that's who you're talking about.

Belle:
Yeah.

Kate:
And actually, our next podcast is with the Young People in Horticulture.

Belle:
That's interesting. Yeah.

Kate:
Yeah. Which is a great organisation it really, really is.

Phil:
Fantastic. So, other than winning this fund, what else have you found invaluable through joining GIMA?

Belle:
Just the connections it offers. To be put in front of buyers and other people who are part of GIMA. I've connected with a few other businesses, through that. And in my mind, I think being a business, if you support other business and create a community, you're much stronger and it feels a heck a lot less lonely as well.
So people share that journey and pitfalls, I guess. And like together you are so much stronger, and you can then recommend other people. And I just love that. My business is all about collaborating with other businesses. I love British made. So, if you're British made, I'm all over it. But yeah, that's what I've got from it.

Phil:
Yeah, fantastic.

Kate:
So, is this available to buy in stores now? Because my next question is, have you already started seeing feedback from some of your early customers?

Belle:
Yeah. So, I launched last year. So, we did a self-funded soft launch. So, I sold it through my website. It has been amazing. The response has been incredible. Our Trustpilot we're rated as excellent.

Kate:
Good.

Belle:
And my favourite thing is when a customer calls me and I get to see a bit of an insight in their life how they're using it. And what else do they want me to invent and how can we improve it? And that's my favourite thing, is when people get in touch.

Phil:
So maybe we need to just talk a little bit about that. So, if you got if you got other ideas about where this is going to go. Not just this product, but maybe other products?

Kate:
More products in the pipeline?

Phil:
Oh, nice!

Belle:
Yeah. So I want to make it easy for the leisure industry. So at the moment I'm prototyping an additional holder, that will have more flexibility for different widths and depths of containers. Because obviously, once again, saving water in the leisure industry is huge. It's a massive water waste to.

Phil:
Tell us about, what type of applications that might be because that might not be instantly obvious to people.

Belle:
Yeah. So that's more focusing on, like I said, hot tubs, swimming pools, more the pond aspect of things. And, IBCs, so that's farming, obviously.
Kate:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Belle:
So yeah, those larger containers, the larger troughs. At the moment the holder can only go up to about a galvanised trough and it's just opening up to more people basically.

Phil:
Right. But the actual stop itself will work fine. It’s just literally just the bit that hooks on at the top there.

Belle:
Yeah. Just go to make it more user friendly for people because it has to be convenient and easy to use because at the end of day, the end goal is to save as much water for people. Where the businesses moving into, it's moving into, rainwater harvesting. And then eventually I want to go into grey water harvesting. So, it's very much on the water saving aspect.

Kate:
Very much sustainability.

Belle:
Sustainability is huge to me. It's, it's the most important thing, which is why I made sure the Seal Stop was sustainable itself.

Phil:
Fantastic. So, we're here at Glee. And, what's your goal from the show? What are you hoping to get out of it?

Belle:
I'm a new product with a new idea that's never been on the market before. So, to me, it's brand awareness. And just to come on a stand and have as many people, interacting with me is amazing. And it means that Seal Stop has a place, and that's basically what I want. I want people to know who I am, why I've created it, and what Seal Stop stands for. So, to me, it's brand awareness and it'd be lovely to get into a few garden centres, so it's another touchpoint for customers.

Kate:
Right. So with hosepipe restrictions, water awareness rising, how do you talk about Seal Stop’s, environmental impact where that kind of over claiming or greenwashing.

Belle:
Well, no greenwashing here. It's all genuine. It was built on a sustainable core because that was really important to me. So as far as we know that the water crisis is getting more and more serious, even in the UK, they're looking that by 2050 we're going to be 5 million litres of water a day short. So, there's only going to be more and more pressure on saving water.
So, it was really important to make a product that was, like I said, easy to use and convenience of people would use it. Because like I said, it's going to get more and more important to only use what we need. And unfortunately, in the gardening world with temporary use bans, it affects them mainly. And I always think it's sad because you spent so much time and effort planning you garden and then, the time to enjoy it. they bring in a temporary usage ban.
And in my mind if we could get Seal Stop to be bigger, we would reduce these temporary usage bans. And it's all about using the water that we need and being mindful in how we're using it.

Kate:
Especially as there's so many more people are living in smaller spaces. We've got less garden, more people with pots. So, there's more watering cans being filled up, more buckets being filled up, water butts needed more. So yeah, it's definitely coming at the right time, isn't it?

Belle:
Yeah. And I work a lot with water authorities trying to get more knowledge about this. How can we get this in front of people and what the future looks like for people? And, being part of the water literacy program was really, really important to me about getting that knowledge behind it so that I can educate others about water usage and clever ways that other inventors have come out with ways to save water.

Phil:
So tell us a little bit about that. So I don't think I've heard about the water literacy project.

Belle:
The water literacy program was amazing. So, it's run by groundworks, who is a charity.

Kate:
I know Groundworks, yes.

Belle:
…Water Wise and Northumbrian Water who are pioneering in water saving technologies. So, Northumberland Water have been incredible with Seal Stop and they're going to put it onto a trial, which is so exciting.
So, it was all about giving you knowledge behind the water crisis and ways in which organisations can reduce their water usage. So the idea is to get to where we’re water neutral. Or water positive. We're a long way off that. But it's from products like my own that we will eventually achieve this. And it's so important for household consumers to be able to be empowered, to be able to save their own water as well as, organisations. So that's what we're kind of fighting for.

Phil:
And you mentioned, earlier about being British with the manufacturing and that sort of thing. So how did you find that finding manufacturing partners, but also trying to keep control of the costs? Because you're on a Start-Up budget. So, they don't necessarily go hand in hand, do they?

Belle:
No, no they don't. I am a fierce networker. Basically. I knew from the start I only want this to be British made. I want to support local businesses. And I'm really grateful the fact that I've managed to have all my suppliers local to me, it's completely Yorkshire made. Which is unbelievable. And I suppose it was - like I said, I'm part of, women in manufacturing. And it was just through networking that I managed to find an injection-moulder who's local to me, who, who also wants to take it on. So…

Phil:
Well, that sounds really exciting, actually.

Belle:
And for me, the cost of it. I don't personally feel that UK manufacturing is that expensive. Because I can guarantee the quality and the durability, and that to me is everything, because then I'm passing on a product that I can be proud of to my customers.

Kate:
And you know it's not going to fall apart after one season.

Belle:
It definitely won’t. We actually run it over with a tractor!

Kate:
Really?

Belle:
Yeah. I’ve got a video running over it with a tactor. And it survived.

Kate:
Oh my goodness. Oh I love that I love that. So I mean you have a really unique design. How are you protecting the idea?

Belle:
Yeah. So we've got all our registered designs, and we've got a patent pending, which will be granted in November this year, which is exciting. So that's UK and international.

Phil:
Yeah. That's really important because you don't want, you know, it's such a great idea. You don't want somebody taking it, manufacturing…

Kate:
Cheap copying in China.

Phil:
Yeah. Exactly. So while you were developing the product, how many iterations did you go through before you felt like you'd absolutely nailed it?

Belle:
So, we had three 3D printed prototypes done. I really knew how I wanted it to look and how we had an idea how it works, so it was just fine tuning it. So, it's a really fiddly piece of kit we've invented, and it goes down to such a small diameter, goes down to 0.7mm. It's ridiculous. And it really affects the water flow if it's not perfect. So, it was getting that and then we had it casted so we could have ten of them to ensure it was right before we went and actually cut the tool. And even now it's been out for a year and I'm forever improving the tooling. It has to be perfect.
And because it's having to work on completely different water pressures from 0.5 up to 5.5 bar pressure.
You find these irregularities, I guess, and it's just going, why? What can we do and how can we improve it? So I'm really pleased that I can continue to innovate and make this as good as I can make it.

Phil:
Oh that’s really good.

Kate:
And is it up for, the one of the new product awards at Glee?
It wasn't shortlisted?

Kate:
I wasn't shortlisted! What?

Belle:
It wasn't. You’ll have to get on to the judges about that?

Kate:
Outrageous. Right.

Belle:
Yeah, I know.

Kate:
But there's always, do you know the Garden Press event where there's a lot of new product awards.

Belle:
Is that the one in February?

Kate:
Yes. Will you be there?

Belle:
Yes, we will be. So, that's exciting.

Kate:
We’ll have to have some words.

Phil:
I think that just about wraps things up.

Kate:
It does indeed.

Phil:
So, thank you so much, Belle. It's been absolute pleasure finding out about, Seal Stop and your story. And congratulations again on winning the, seed corn fund.

Belle:
Thank you.

Kate:
And good luck with the future.

Belle:
I've really enjoyed it. So, thank you so much.

Kate:
Ah, lovely.

Phil:
Please do subscribe, like and review us on your podcast platform of choice – it only takes a moment, and it helps us to make the podcast possible. If you found this episode useful, do spread the word and share it with your colleagues. Signing up to our mailing list at theunderground.fm will mean that you’ll receive insight and news and new episodes, straight to your inbox.

The Underground podcast is produced by WrightObara a creative marketing agency for home and garden brands. The production at Glee doesn’t happen without a team of people behind it, so my thanks goes to:
Matt Mien and Keterina Albanese from the Glee team for their help and assistance.
Technical production Paul Withers
Production Assistant Josh Wright
Onsite Videography Ben Holmes
Graphic Design and Marketing Support Claire Appleby
The Underground logo was created by Jan Obara
The podcast booth was constructed with the support of Toby Noyce of Xtreme Graphics
And of course, my thanks goes to my brilliant co-host Kate Turner, the gardener guru.
Thanks for listening.