Phil
So it's my great pleasure to welcome onto the underground today, Tony Clare, the commercial director of Henry Bell. Welcome, Tony.

Kate
Hi, Tony.

Tony
Thank you for having me.

Phil
Maybe the best place to start is whether you can share a brief history of Henry Bell and its evolution into the Wild Bird Care industry.

Tony
Of course. Yeah. I wouldn't say it's a brief evolution. We're celebrating our 200th anniversary this year, right?

Kate
Wow.

Tony
We've been around for quite a while. It's been… the owner of the company's been in his family for now for fourth generation. So the best part of about half of that. Yeah, there's quite a long history behind the business. As a brand, we are, quite new. We launched, just over five years ago at, Glee in 2019.

Kate
Oh, right. Okay.

Tony
So we're we're one of the newcomers to the kind of the industry in terms of brand, but in terms of business and what we do and how we operate. We've been around for a long time. So, traditionally we're known as kind of an OEM manufacturers that we manufacture for other brands. Within the industry. So, for those of you who've got some memories going back, people like, Gardman or Chapelwood or those historical people would come to us and say, can you manufacture and make products on our behalf and then put it in their bags and distribute out from there? And then six years ago, kind of following a few changes within the industry, Tom came to me and said, I would like to, talk and have a conversation about creating, my own brand.
So that was six years ago, and now we fast forward and here we are today.

Kate
Just taken 200 days to get there. But you've got there now.

Tony
There's never a rush in Bird Care!

Phil
So Tony, what made you want to come and work for a bird food company?

Tony
I get this quite a lot, actually. And it's, when you, when you kind of talk to people and you meet socially and they say, “what do you do?” And you say you feed the birds and you go, really? So I used to work for Gardman. Going back, I came into the industry just over ten years ago, which probably still makes me a newbie for most people, but I came into the gardening industry ten years ago.
And I was procurement director and supply chain director at Gardman. And then when, Gardman had the catastrophic fire and things went kind of wrong at the end, I kind of had some decisions to make. And it was at that time that Tom approached me, and historically, Tom would have been my supplier. So I used to buy from Henry Bell.
It was kind of a novel approach at the time. It was interesting for somebody to come and say, we'd like to build a brand, but we have no idea how to do it. We'd like your help. Would you come on board? So we met on a Friday evening in Stamford and had a drink and wished I had more than 1 or 2.

Kate
So, what distinguishes Henry Bell from all the other brands in the market, why did they decide it was a good idea to go for it?

Tony
I think, bird care within gardening, in, in my view, is one of those areas that hadn't really changed or developed for quite a period of time. And if you look at trends within gardening and garden centres and the way people shop and what they're shopping for, I think over the last 20 years you've seen a massive move and I always use furniture as a good example. You know, what people were buying furniture was 25 years ago in terms of garden benches is definitely not what people are buying today.
But Bird perhaps hadn't been as quick to, to move with the times you know. Brands had been around for a while, but it was still seen as almost kind of a secondary product category because it sells really well at Christmas or it sells when it's cold and it keeps us going when gardens centre’s have got less footfall.
So it was kind of almost like it was a secondary consideration. We wanted and have driven to be different, more contemporary. We came at it with a different, younger target market and target audience type. A younger female market. And we wanted to freshen up the category. Now, that’s not me criticising other brands within the area that we compete with.
I admire them a lot and a lot of them have great qualities, but we felt there was a sufficient gap for us to try and exploit by bringing something new and different. Now we had the manufacturing history and the manufacturing facility behind us because we have the largest manufacturing facility within the UK, here in Grantham where.
I sit at the moment. So because we'd be making for everybody and because we had the expertise in manufacturing and we knew what we were doing product wise, in terms of bags within that wasn't so difficult. And if we could take that and look to be niche, and exploit that niche, an opportunity within the market, we felt there was a chance to kind of, to impact within.
So now when you see the range that we have, I would describe it as being younger. I would describe it as being more contemporary. I would describe it cleaner. We try and make ourselves very easy to shop for our customers to navigate. I have one of these pet things that if I'm standing 20 yards away from a shelf, I want to know that I'm walking in the direction of what I'm going to buy.
I don’t want to have to get there and then work out what's in the bag in front of me. So everything is clear. Everything says what it is. We colour code things just to make it easier. And we spend a lot of time with our customers, garden centres working to deliver that. And I guess we'll come on to talk about some of the trends and some of the ideas we've got.
But in principle of where we started, that was what we wanted to be.

Kate
So you talked about how you approach your branding and how you kind of got this younger feeling, but what about what actually goes inside, to the packaging? How do you kind of ensure your quality and sustainability match up to what you're selling?

Tony
Well, I think there's two steps to that. So let me let me first start with the packaging. We at launch, we launched the first range that was 100% recyclable bags across all products. And everything we sell comes in, kerbside collection. So it's not take to a supermarket. It's not, you know, take it to a retailer, everything is kerbside.
And now we had to invest to do that, that there is a cost obviously attached. But the that was the premise that we wanted to come from, it was one of the key, words that comes off on the chart when you touch on when you organise these things, the 10 things, you want to be; sustainable, you’ll be unsurprised to see was at number two or number three kind on the list to do. Actually number one was quality. And I'm very lucky in a way in that, my managing director, who's been in the business now running this business for about 25 years, is probably just about the world's expert at what goes into a bag to make a really good feed.
And he is passionate that the product that we bring to market is the best that we can make it. So, we, we concentrate on the variety of seeds, the content of seeds that go in. We try to minimise the filler, if that makes sense, to cut down on the wastage. So, we try and stand by the fact that we have the highest quality product within the market in a fully recyclable bag. So both of those elements are entirely key about what we stand for.
I think as a result of that, a lot of the customers from gardens and his food and now have caught bought into the brand and bought into what we do. We tend to upsell them into higher quality products. So, you know, our entry product is not… we have it, but it's not really a product that we're passionate about selling.
I'd much rather take people into a higher level. And, really kind of post-Covid when all of a sudden, more people were feeding the birds than ever before because you could do was play golf, go fishing, or go to a garden centre. So a lot more people start feeding the birds and then they have ever done. And then kind of over the last 4 or 5 years since that time, you've now found, you find there's a lot more educated customer base out there.
So they will spend more money to buy into a better quality product.

Kate
But as you said, it's not easy. And we find that's very comparable with kind of a lot of the peat free manufacturers around that, you know, it is a more expensive product and you've got to get that selling just right. But the quality, it's got to be there. But then hopefully people will come back because they know, you know your quality’s good, so they're going to buy you again.

Tony
Oh I yeah I agree I think there is a decision for customers, you know, sorry, for the consumers, that the consumer who are buying, they have to know what they're buying and buy into the right product and keep coming back. And there is a responsibility for the garden centres within that, as well as supplying consumers and allowing them to make an informed purchase.

Phil
Yeah. No, absolutely. I mean, you mentioned there about, during Covid there was an increase in, people feeding the birds. And this may sound like a stupid question, but, why is it important to feed garden birds?

Tony
Well, there are a number of practical circumstances around that. So, in terms of responsibility for feeding birds, look, the number of hedgerows and natural feeding habitats for birds within the UK is on the decline. And I don't think, you know, you'd have to be Einstein to work that out. And so the, the natural resource is diminishing.
And I think so that's part of it. I think secondly, there is a health and wellbeing benefit to people for feeding the birds. Getting people outside more often, you know, getting them engaged with nature. You're giving them something to respond to and look to. And the more they get into that, what you then see is there are different feed types that attract different types of birds.
And then you get into, okay, well what feet up could I be using and what should I be using. And if you link that into some of the work that's been done by the BTO and the RSPB in terms of declining numbers on different bird species and, and what you could and should be feeding and habitats and maintaining, I think we all have a responsibility to feed the birds.

Phil
BTO is what sorry?

Tony
British Trust for Ornithology

Phil
Okay. And so if you're supplementary feeding birds, how does that, impact the health and the survival of our wild bird populations?

Tony
It can have, very big impact. And, I actually think in these days, it’s probably something we need to do. And I think that actually, in fairness, it's only going to grow more important in time as climate change. And we've seen the impact of that over the last weekend. I don't know when this is coming out, but for those, you know, Storm Burt, actually named after Sesame Street character, nothing, not a mean bone in his body. It caused all sorts of problems of the weekend. You know, and with the impacts of warmer seasons, longer seasons, high wind, loss of habitat. Yeah. The bird, the birds in the UK, are in for a fight. In the kind of the short and medium term, not just the long term anymore about being able to keep their numbers up and grow them.
And the more, the more help we can give them, the better. And, you know, within this industry, we focus on encouraging customers and consumers into their gardens. We ask them to, you know, spend money and time and growing things and nurturing things as well as making things look good, and, you know, feeding the birds on top is a very, very simple step to make.
I think there's a stat that 70% of all people who buy from garden centres will feed the birds.

Phil
That's a good stat.

Kate
That is a really good start, isn't it? So, I'm a sustainable gardener. That’s how I like to garden. So would you say that by encouraging birds into your garden, by feeding them, that you are also having other benefits, such as controlling kind of pest problems that you might have in your garden?

Tony
Yes. I and I think without meaning to sound stupid. The more birds you have, the more bugs and grubs and everything else they’re going to eat. And if you're anything like me, I had slugs all over the place earlier on this year.
And then the rain came down, and my vegetable patch got decimated.

Kate
So would you say there are. I mean, most of us think that winter is the time you need to feed birds. Is that necessarily true? Are there other specific times of the year when you should be feeding your birds?

Tony
So I would encourage people to feed all year round. And that's nothing to do with the commercial success of the business, I hasten to add. It actually get you get, birds accustomed to an, a routine of where they feed from, so they tend to go back to the same source quite frequently, and they'll have a route that they fly around not just in your garden, but neighbours and, and, and various hedgerows.
So, if you're not feeding the whole year round, they'll tend to skip and move on or gap and, and they won't. They have to then go learn and then go to find. Now obviously, you know, the colder it gets and the less berries there are on the trees, the more they will rely upon us helping them out.
So winter is, is kind of seen as a is the key time to feed the birds. And you know, we had the first snow where I live last week. And certainly I saw a lot more birds coming to feed over the weekend than I had done in a while. But as I say, it is important to keep feeding the birds all year round. In terms of for the industry and industry sales numbers, actually the busiest time for us as a bird care manufacturer is in May.

Kate
Okay. Is that because people are getting out more and seeing more kind of younger birds and just more aware of the birds in their garden?

Tony
I think it's a combination of two things. I think it's yes, because you're getting baby birds coming in. So you're seeing fledglings and people are talking about it more, but actually bird care sales, again, coming back to the link between this and people who garden, the more people who are going into garden centres, you're naturally going to get the uplift as well. So one is customer footfall and the other one is the time of year that goes through.

Kate
Okay. And to do your products do do they have different types of feed, some more different feed for the winter, different feed for spring. So you are encouraging them to feed all year. But does the type of food you would advise change?

Tony
I would advise to be consistent in what you feed and what you put out. But yes, there are benefits of individual products through the year. So we do a product called a Calciworm which is a variation on a mealworm. Those are common all year round, but actually Calciworm it’s in its name, it has a higher concentration of calcium within it.
So very good for, hardening eggshells and for bone development in baby birds. So, you know, if you're looking to feed and you've got baby birds in a little nest box in March and April, there's a really good product to be putting out there. In the winter, I would be looking at a suet or a high energy fat ball or fat product.
It gives the bird an instant boost. It helps build their body weight and keep them going. And in the cold weather, we all sit there and look at our robins shivering in the bushes. I’m sure it would appreciate a very nice fat ball to have.

Kate
But that's my excuse for eating lots of chocolate and fatty foods in the winter.

Tony
So we launched, 12 months ago, a range called Insect oil. Now that that's a new version of a fat product. So the traditionally a fat ball is made from suet, it’s a by-product from a cow. This product comes is the by-product from Calciworm. Well, the big advantage of that is… well, a number of reasons really. But the environmental impact of taking a fat ball from a cow and having to grow the cow and feed the cow and the amount of land, water and food and all of that versus a mealworm is quite remarkable.
So you, the studies show that you use 98% less, greenhouse emissions by making a fat ball from Calciworm than you do from a cow. Now, on top of the environmental benefit of the product, is the fact that actually, traditionally, birds unsurprised to know are used to eating insects.

Kate
Eating worms.

Tony
So it turns out it's actually better for them as well.

Kate
Of course. So, Calciworm, is that like a product name or is that the actual name of the of the insect itself?

Tony
So, the insect itself is called black soldier larvae. It’s a type of mealworm. It's a Calciworm.

Kate
I met them a couple of weeks ago. They are the new big thing in sustainable gardening so that the new big thing in plant food as well. So interesting. Yeah. I went to a fly farm, a couple of weeks ago in Hertfordshire, so. Yeah. Smells lovely.

Tony
ou know, I've not been to one domestically, but I have, however, been to many in China and it's the smell is really… will never get out of your system for funding. But, no, we, launched the product 12 months ago. Success know the uptake has been really, good. So we, we position it as kind of again, challenging the boundary and being a category leader, where, where can we innovate and where can we where can we take the, you know, route development to.

Phil
Tony, in the spirit of there's no such thing as a stupid question, how does how do if you are new to feeding a bird. Say you've put a bird feeder in the bottom of your garden…

Tony
Are we speaking from personal position here?

Phil
No no no no no no no. We actually feed the birds in our garden. But if you're new to feeding birds in the in your garden, you've put a bird feeder out. How do they know that it's there? Do they just fly past and then they spot it?

Tony
How do how do they know? Well, you normally with these things, it takes about seven days for a bird. If you hang a bird feeder up for the first time, don't expect that much interaction for the first three or four days; wait for the seventh. They do have a sense of smell. They don't particularly have a sense of taste.
But they do have a sense of smell. So they will be able to smell the foods to come and find it. But give yourself seven days for the birds to find the food source. And if it's not working within seven days, they move it. But I would keep it… One of the things that people do is they like to put the feeder somewhere so that they can see the feeder. So often they hang it in the middle of nowhere.
Actually, what you need to do is hang it by a tree or branches so that the birds can find a safe place to hover or perch, so they get the sense of security that they can feed from the feeder without danger.

Phil
Right. And do they then so once they found it, so they then tell their friends about it?

Tony
Yeah. They get together and have a coffee. They get a glass of Coke and there you go that way! They tend to follow it around.
You'll get… where one where one will be, the others will follow. Although it will help to use different types of feed to attract different birds.
So if you have as an example chaffinches or finches in your garden, you should be looking to put Niger seed out because that's something that they absolutely love. Nuthatches obviously peanuts. And then you can get you get then more generic. But there are specific foods that will attract different types of birds. I guess is what I'm trying to say.

Kate
And do you do a breakdown of single feeds for single bird types?

Tony
On every single bag of product that we do, we have images of the birds that will feed from that product. And we provide point of sale to stores as well that provides a complete food list on the breakdown, and then pictures of birds along the top and you can match it up as to what you want.

Kate
That's handy.

Phil
So earlier you mentioned about climate change. Are you seeing climate change having an impact on the business?

Tony
I think I'm seeing, sustainability is becoming key, not just for us but within the industry. It's certainly what people are talking about. So everybody is more environmentally aware than we ever have been. And I think that that's only growing, the impact upon birds, I think we've spoken about, you know, it it's massive. And it's only going to get worse.
So the more the more we can start at the moment, the better. But you know, as well as feeding the birds and responsibility for feeding the birds, we have a corporate responsibility to do the right thing for the planet and the right thing for the people, and we strive and endeavour to do that at all times.

Phil
So when you're feeding, it's in the garden, does that actually contribute to local biodiversity and ecosystem health?

Tony
It helps with the different types of food that you will put, and the variety of foods that are available, and the number of sources that those birds can go to. So yes, it's going to help. It's going to help keep the numbers up and it's going to help keep, particularly in spring. It's going to help is going to make it easier for the baby birds to get through.
What you want is the baby bird to get some spring and into summer so that they can then get into winter. You want to give them the best start you possibly can. So having multiple foods available in as many sources as possible is the best thing.
So we've touched on this earlier about as well as the environmental impacts and feeding birds. You kind of briefly mentioned that the, the personal benefit I mean, I've for me feeding birds, I've absolutely noticed it because I've moved to the coast a year ago and I have seagulls and I can't feed my birds anymore. I know it sounds silly, but I absolutely I miss watching from a window or just sitting in my garden watching blackbirds was always my favourite.
But I've really, really missed that. And I've always found that is a mental health benefit. Would you kind of… is that something you push as part of your business?

Tony
Absolutely, absolutely. you know, there is an undoubted benefit for getting out and about in the garden and being one with nature. You know how quantifiable that is I don't know? But there is absolutely a benefit in doing that.

Kate
Oh there's lots of quantifiable research out there.

Tony
There you go. You know, there is a huge benefit to doing that. In terms of a specific one. If you've got, lots of seagulls in your garden keeping the birds away, without trying to flog one of my own products too overtly, we introduced a squirrel defence feeder at Glee, this year, it's taken… it's been two years in design.
And, it has a weight control system on the perches so that if a heavy bird, like a pigeon or a seagull or dove, were to land on it, the food sources close to they can't get to it.

Kate
Okay. That would be really interesting. Yeah. And you say it works?

Tony
It, well, I believe so. I also live by the coast and I've managed to keep the seagulls away so, you know.

Kate
Do you? I am going to have a go, because seagulls are great, they're interesting to watch, but I just I miss the blue tits. I miss the little guys, I really, really do. And. Yeah, and actually I've had a bigger kind of infestation of smaller pests this year. I really have, you know, green fly aphids, all that kind of thing. So I really do think it makes it makes a difference. But yeah. Anyway, that's enough about me and my mental health!
So again we've talked about garden centres. So what other advantages do garden centres, gain by dedicating sections to bird feeding products would you say?

Tony
Garden centres that have a proper range of bird care. I think, you know, come back to the 70% of people that buy in gardens, will then buy in bird, right? So that, the more they have, the better it is going to be. The more products you have then available and the more choice you're giving consumers, the better it can be as well.
And it's important, I think, to merchandise, and position the product in the right way. So we work closely with a lot of our partners in how a product is displayed. So we utilise what we call a vertical merchandising. So we do a bay of food and then we do a bay of hardware and the hardware corresponds with the food to make sure the connectivity between the two is there.
But we also encourage all of our centres that we work with to use secondary spacing, wooden display units. So that you're picking up, ad hoc purchases, and boosting basket spend, and getting all of those commercial advantages in there as well.

Phil
So if a garden centre has dedicated space to, their bird feeding section, within the store, what sort of things can the garden centre do to effectively educate their customers about the importance of feeding the birds?

Tony
Work with us, and we'll help you do it. We spend a lot of time, a lot of time working with, what we call our garden centre partners here to look at what is the best way to display product. What is the best way to show product?
What is the best point of sale that we can bring that enables the area to get shopped to its best of its ability, but also to make sure that customers are buying the right product. So if I use a new initiative that we introduced at Glee this year, we designed something called Brand Blocks. It's a very simple bit of Point of Sale. it is roughly the size of a bag of bird seed, that attaches to the back wall unit. But it enables us to put a key message to the consumer about what they should be doing. So one of the ones we talk about is, you know, again, if you're buying whole peanuts, please use a peanut feeder. What is the difference between calci- worm and a mealworm, you know, Calciworm higher calcium content, all those kind of things.
So we're working with customers to, to try and educate the whole way through the process. And it's important I think as a manufacturer. We have a responsibility to do that. It cannot just be upon garden centres to do this. I think, you know, we have a massive part to play and we pride ourselves on being a bird specialist.
We don't do anything else. And if we're going to make that statement, then we need to be able to work with our partners to actually prove that and justify that. So it's a constant ongoing project within the team here; as to how do we keep innovating? How do we keep pushing, but not just on products on education and information as well.

Kate
So we talked about trends and how you kind of changing your packaging and your look. Are there anything specific, particular trends that you've of you've observed in customer interest, regarding your kind of the bird feeding supplies, or are you kind of the vanguard of this new kind of look, would you say?

Tony
Oh, I, I think we learn the whole time. And I think as a business, we have a team and I demand it of my team to, you know, to be learning. And if we don't learn and we're not moving on, then it's never it's never a good thing. Somebody once told me, if you did what you did last year, then all you’re ever going to do is do the same again next year.

Kate
I like that. You're giving us a few good quotes here today.

Tony
So look, in terms of things that we've picked up on at the moment, I think there are probably two key learnings coming out of the last year. We're working on. So we, are introducing a lot of multi feed feeders. So instead of having one type of food per feeder, we're actually looking to explore 2 or 3 different types within. Now that enables you to do all those things we just talked about in terms of attracting different birds and everything else, but it means that you're buying into one and keeping an eye on it.
Now, actually, our best selling feeder, within the UK, both in terms of volume and turnover in the last 12 months, is our 3 in 1 feeder, which is our most expensive one.

Kate
Right.

Tony
So that has seed, fat ball and sunflower hearts. So you have different feeds attracting it through. So that's the biggest one. So we have worked on developing that range. We've expanded the 3 in 1. And we're also introducing 2 in 1 feeders as well. So customers are buying into I think more expensive product but more expensive product when they've got different feed types on top.
And then the second trend I think we spoke about earlier is that, people are really looking to buy a quality seed mix that is has the highest variety. And when I talk to a lot of our centres that we work with, that's one of the big areas of feedback is actually an entry price point is all well and good, but that's not what customers are looking for.
And that's not really what they want to sell. And in the last 12 months, volume on our, kind of two top end lines is, somewhere in the sweet spot, about 18 to 20% up year on year. So you really seeing that education piece coming at the back of Covid? More numbers came in. Everybody bought hardware.
Hardware sales dropped for a bit. But then as the kind of understanding of what they need to feed goes, what they buy starts to improve. And then they're coming back. Now we're going around full circle again, and it's right. Okay, let's get new hardware. Let's make it look better, but let's get multi-feed varieties coming in.

Kate
So Henry Bell's been around a long, long time. So how do you approach innovation in product development? How do you stay ahead in the bird care industry. Do you have your own R&D department? Is it quite a big company?

Tony
We're a fair-sized company. I wouldn't say we're large enough to have an R&D company. Look, we're kind of on site, we're probably about 80 people in all. And that includes.. And most of that's in manufacturing. We have quite a big operations team here. One of the challenges that we have as a business is, you know, we we've set ourselves a target of maintaining 98 plus availability on all lines. And we have done since year, since the first day that we launched. And actually we maintain that through Covid. And so we're always trying to keep that going.
In terms of new ideas, and innovation, we work really closely with a number of key, garden partners, garden centres within the industry. We have quarterly meetings where we all get together and we look at trends, new product ideas, new product initiatives, where we could be going.
Again, we are a bird specialist. We want to be seen to be the category leader. We want to be seen to be, you know, pushing the boat. Now, people might think that's not quite so easy when it comes to feeding the birds. And yeah, hardware is probably slightly different, but I think you can look at a number of different ways: how can we help our centres to sell more? How can we help our customers to buy the right product and feed more?
What can we do as a company to help facilitate all of that? With going. And that's a constant question that we continue to ask ourselves. We are working on our new product development initiatives for next season. We started about six, eight weeks ago. And then they tend to take about ten months to come to fruition. And at some point in the next few weeks, I'll be disappearing on a plane to China when it's really freezing cold. And it's not the time of year that you want to go, but when you're working in bird care!

Phil
So quite clearly that new product development is top secret. So, can you tell us about that?

Tony
No.
In terms of where we are, we are looking, we're looking at a couple of, food lines, for next year. I don't want to give too much away, but they're going to be within what we call our ready to feed category. So this is kind of the lower end of the feed, but where you're looking to increase basket spend and you and you're probably looking to get first time consumers into the market, people tend to forget, actually, one of the key roles that garden centres have within this industry is to keep new people coming in.
You know, that's the beauty of a prefilled feeder, is somebody can take a product that is under £5, take it off the shelf, buy it, walk out and feed the birds without having to do anything. There's not many other retailers have that opportunity. So we are looking at that and then we have a number of other hardware initiatives as well.
I can't give too much away, but I think I did mention earlier that birds have a sense smell, there might be something along those lines coming to help you attract more birds into your garden.

Phil
Well you heard it here first.

Kate
You heard it here first folks! That's interesting because, one of the tips that I'm always being told is if you put chilli powder on your bird feeder, it'll keep the squirrels away because they do have a sense of taste, whereas birds don't. Is that true?

Tony
That is true, that is true. I when I'm not sure I use chilli powder, I might use chilli oil, but yes, they have a sense of taste. Be careful what you feed. I mean I, I grow chillies, so I would recommend the kind of a jalapeno style Scovil rating for getting rid of them, rather than a kind of a ghost chilli, because you really might not have any squirrels left.
But yes, this is very true. That spice does keep squirrels away.

Kate
So, leading on from that then, do you have another, or what's the most unusual or creative bird feeding tip you've ever come across?

Tony
Well you actually stole my thunder there.

Kate
Oh, no, I’m so sorry!

Tony
I was going to do that one. So this a true story. And, my parents, bless them, they're I'm kind of I don't think my ever listen to this, so I'm safe to say they're kind of in their mid 70s, so I can probably get away with this. They, I have lots of squirrels in their garden.
And they are forever, you know, phoning me and asking me for new ideas because they've got squirrels. So I gave them a squirrel proof feeder as a Christmas present a couple of years ago, and I had the phone call within three days to say it's yeah, it's great, but you've got I've got a squirrel around the squirrel proof feeder.
And then they changed where they were hanging it from. So he decided to change the location on the tree, and then he got some great initiative and decided that he was going to wrap barbed wire around the top of the feeder, and the branch to stop the squirrel going along to get to the food. And then he phoned me up two days later to say that he'd given up because the squirrel had just decided to eat through the branch and chewed the branch off, and it fallen on the ground, and he was now eating the food.
At which point I said, have you heard of chilli oil? And he now... So ,he did try the chilli oil trick. And he now has, bird feeders in his garden. Where only the birds will feed from. And this year I bought… I hope he doesn't listen to this until January. But I have bought a squirrel feeder to go down the other end of the garden so he can keep them down there.

Kate
Brilliant, brilliant. So chilli does work, folks. You've heard it here. Absolutely. That's great. Wonderful. And one thing I'm just going to add, if you don't mind to, is just to say. But as well as feeding the birds, it's also really, important to put water out there as well. When you're feeding birds clean fresh water.

Tony
Yeah. And if you wish to use a Henry Bell water drinker I’d love you forever.

Kate
Oh, I didn’t know you did them?

Tony
It's very true. And it's, it's really it's one of the things in every bay of hardware we do, you will always find water drinkers.

Kate
Ahh, how have I missed that? Okay, that's really interesting.

Tony
And we didn't arrange that in advance between us. That was actually spontaneous.

Kate
No, we didn’t.

Phil
Well, I think that’s just brilliant, I think that just about wraps things up Tony. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to us today. It’s been fascinating finding out about Henry Bell and your history, very long history of the company.

Tony
I'm not that old by the way! I've only been here six years. Thank you for taking the opportunity to talk to me. And thanks for lining this up. And I hope some people join in and listen.