So welcome to another of our special episodes in the run up to GLEE. This week we're joined by the Managing Director of AMES, Mr. Paul North. Paul. Welcome to the underground.

Hi, Paul.

Thank you for having me.

Well, let's kick off by just learning a little bit more about you, Paul. How did you come to work with AMES?

So I started talking to the US leadership team of the AMES companies in the run up to Christmas 2019, and I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation, was intrigued by the company, the opportunity and the industry, the initiative being new to me, the garden retailing industry, and within weeks of talking, agreed to join something I knew little or nothing about. And I'll tell you that the first day I started with the company was precisely 14 days prior to Boris Johnson putting the United Kingdom into lockdown. So it was quite the baptism of fire. Joining AMES in the United Kingdom and Ireland. That's good stuff.

I was wondering about what your life was before you came to AMES and how you have perceived the garden sector since, you know.

That is a good question. So, for the 15 years and it was 15 years exactly to the day prior to joining AMES, I worked for a small tool company called Stanley Black and Decker. So Stanley Black and Decker are famous for hand tools and power tools in the Stanley brand, the Black and Decker brand and, for the first nine, ten years of that journey, I lived in the United Kingdom, and I ran product and sales organisations within the business. And for the last part. So for the last five years, I actually lived overseas with my family, my wife and two children. We spent two and a half years living in Brussels, in Europe. And I was responsible for European, business. And then the last two and a half years, I actually spent across the Atlantic on the east coast of America working for Stanley Black and Decker, running some of the businesses over there and a key part of the time I spent in North America was the integration of businesses, the building of high performance teams, the sorts of things that I've really enjoyed in my career field. So, you know, getting the opportunity to take something that is already in really good working order, building a team, defining a vision to take it to a better place, it's a very rewarding thing. And certainly that's what the second half of my career really, looked like in Stanley Black and Decker. And what I've been doing really, for the last four years in the AMES companies in the United Kingdom and Ireland.

So have you noticed much of a difference between the DIY sector and the garden sector? Or are they quite similar?

So there are there are similarities, and there are differences, I guess is the simple way to answer the question Phil. The garden sector was new to me, you know, four years ago, certainly the general retail sector, we serve a multitude of customers, customers that operate traditionally as garden centres. We serve, retailers, DIY online and such.

And so there's a big part of the business in current form that, that I was more than familiar with in terms of customers and channels, because I'd worked in those places in different companies, different brands, different products, the garden centres themselves different. Now I'm used to visiting garden centres as a consumer, and I spent my fair share of weekends, as many do in and out of coffee shops, buying the odd plants, the odd bag of compost and such. So I was accustomed with garden centres but more as a consumer. But I think that really helped me entering this industry because, you know, I'm very keen to look at the product, look at the service through the eyes of the consumer, because ultimately it's the consumer that that dictates if something successful or not. What I found uniquely in the garden sector being quite a small, industry compared to, say, some of the larger DIY retail, what I found is that generally people are really nice in this space. And you know, I have not found it difficult to network or to build relationships. In fact, the opposite, I've actually found it really enjoyable. And, you know, there was an element and I think it's important to share this is an element. When I joined this business of a perception of the company that I was representing, a perception of it being an American organisation. And what does that mean? And is it really interested in the world of garden centres and trying to make the world a better place, as well as a product and such forth? And I think over the course of time, I'm confident that we have dispelled some of those myths that we have. We have created a perception that is more accurate, a perception that we are here for our customers. We are here to provide great products, to provide great service. But to have fun along the way. And I've certainly found myself able to have a fair share of fun as well as work hard within the garden centre sector equally. And that's one of the reasons I really look forward to the annual event of GLEE. I think it's a super event. I think it's great that we can do this in this industry, and great that we can in one place at that one time, get together in the amount that we do.

And is GLEE the largest event that you take part in as a company?

As a company, GLEE is singularly the largest event that we take part in. In fact, really, it's the only event of its kind that we take part in. And it's one of the reasons we take it so seriously Phil. We work on the GLEE event, believe it or not, around the clock, there is no point in time where we stop talking about GLEE in our organisation because it is an event on the calendar we plan for religiously 12 months prior. But I can tell you now, you know, before we finish GLEE this year, we will have a session on the stand where we will all get together. We'll talk about what's going really well, what are the learnings, what would we do different? That actually marks the beginning of our journey for GLEE the following year. So we never really switch off.

So could you give us a little bit for background on AMES as a company and your portfolio of brands that you have?

I'll be happy to. So the AMES companies, UK and Ireland, I guess, can be best described as a sort of a house of very well known and trusted brands within the garden retailing sector, brands including APTA, famous for pots and planters. Brands including La Hacienda, famous for outdoor heating, and brands such as Kelkay, also famous for landscaping products. And each of these brands are so rich in history and have been serving the garden centre sector for many, many years.

Have you been coming to GLEE yourself for a while and what are you most looking forward to about it this year?

Yeah, the AMES companies, and to me more importantly, it's brands, you know, are long time supporters and partners of GLEE, and we've been exhibiting products and we've been talking about the service we can provide, for many, many, many years in one form or another. For example, prior to Covid, it was typical that the brands would be represented at GLEE in their own right. But certainly post-Covid we've got better at representing the brands, the products, the services under the single banner of the AMES companies. And that's a more recent thing. And so far has been received very well by the customers of all of those iconic brands. That we serve.

Why do you think that that's become important?

For me, the importance of integrating and bringing together these great brands, Kate, is that partly our customers are looking for us to do precisely that. And secondly, it is critical to make life easy for our customers, you know, at our core, you know, our fundamental objective is to be the partner of choice. It is to delight the customer and to be better at serving them right and serving their needs. And so, you know, the concept of bringing everything together in that regard is necessary, and it's the enabler to do precisely that. And and it's been the question top of mind from the customers I've been talking to, from the day I joined this business, I can assure you.

So Paul, what does GLEE actually mean to AMES as a business? And when do you start actually trying to prepare for GLEE?

Great question Phil. The GLEE event for us, I guess, provides a platform to showcase innovation, showcase our new product development programs. It is, of course, you know, a fantastic opportunity to network and meet suppliers and customers and colleagues all in one location, all over a short horizon of some three days, although there's many more days that goes into the preparation of, and for us, you know, we really look forward to this event on the calendar once per year because for us, it's our opportunity to talk about what is new, what is different. And by design, what is there to better serve our customers. And certainly, if I think about GLEE this year for just a second, you know, there's really three programs that we look forward to introducing to our customers. The first program is a project we call Project one. Which is the opportunity to buy all of the brands and all of the products in one single order, receive one delivery and one singular invoice. Right. The second is to is to talk about the biggest introduction of new products in the history of these companies. And certainly we will be launching in excess of 700 new products in in a matter of weeks at the GLEE event.

That’s staggering.

Yeah, staggering. Those 700 products are more than the combined number of new products over the last 4 to 5 years. So yeah, it's a big one for us and therefore a big one for the customer. The final point I would add is that we are going to be announcing two very exclusive strategic partnerships in the world of pots. So yeah, there is a lot that we are very excited about attending GLEE this year.

Wonderful. Well, I think you kind of touched briefly on it, but can you let us into any secrets about the innovations or new products you'll be announcing at GLEE? I'm particularly interested in the pruning and cutting side of things.

Yeah, I apologise for saying it again. This is the biggest in the history of the companies. Definitely. And it's one we've been working on for a long time behind the scenes. So lots of new products. And you know, that's across all the categories. You know, it's not a case of we've got lots to talk about in pots and we've got nothing to talk about in outdoor heating or for example, landscaping. We've got new products everywhere. We have a lot more in pots, definitely, but we've got products everywhere. I think, in terms of sharing secrets ahead of the GLEE event, clearly there's an element of keeping my powder dry, and I'd be in a lot of trouble with the rest of the team if I declared everything on this podcast. But I'll tell you this, the new products, exciting as they are, you know, the customer has to see them to believe them. I guess what I can share with you on this podcast is that we will be announcing two strategic partnerships, in the world of pots and those partnerships are with market leaders in both synthetic pots, that's plastic pots to the human being of us. The second would be indoor pots. So we are going to strategically venture into indoor pots, as well as expanding our reach in synthetic. And as a combination of those two partnerships we’ll be the unparalleled, first choice for pots in this industry. We're confident of them.

I like the confidence, some other pot companies might have something else to say about that, but...

I'm sure they will. And look, the acid test will be our customers. And you know I hesitate at the question about revealing secrets for the simple reason that we actually introduced all of these to our teams internally at the beginning of June, and we did it for the single purpose to be able to afford ourselves more time to talk to our customers about these activities, because the reality and the practicality of being at GLEE and being able to talk to your customers about everything in a very short space of time, it's just not practical. So we have been engaging with customers. We've been telling them about the opportunity for one order, one delivery, one invoice, for example. We've been talking to them and in some cases showing them the 700 new products. And also for some, more discreetly talking about these partnerships, although they will be announced with names the at the GLEE event. And I'm glad we did it, for the simple reason that the feedback so far has been tremendous. And if nothing, what it has done is created a greater level of excitement, anticipation to visitors. We've got a high level of confidence that we’ll get a lot of customers come spend some time with us at GLEE this year.

Wonderful. So as you mentioned, the AMES brands cover several facets within the garden sector. Despite the current economic climate and the actual climate, as we all know this has been a blooming awful year for weather, for gardening, have you been able to see any areas of growth within the sector?

Okay, I love the pun blooming. Blooming awful, I love it. It wasn't lost on me. In terms of the industry itself, I'd say this, like all suppliers, like all retailers in this sector, you know, we've all collectively found this year challenging, we've experienced the second wettest winter and spring on record that's Met Office records in nearly two centuries. This year we have experienced three times the flooding of the prior year. And if that were not enough, we're not getting any help from the economy. Right. The areas where consumers were spending more than we did last year, are areas that include our mortgage payments, our energy bills. And aside of that, eating out. So, you know, those core categories we play in, they've been really, really challenged this year because of that external environment. Now the truth is that despite this, we as a business are in growth versus the prior year, both in revenue and volume. And despite this, we have a high level of confidence that going to GLEE this year, we have the programs to address growth to deliver growth into season 25, irrespective of those environmental conditions that are outside of our control. We've tried to focus our energy on the things that we can control and influence, and continue to be aware of those that we can't, but really get busy with the things we can.

So you don't think GLEE's going to be a doom and gloom show this year? You think there's going to be lots of positivity there?

I think by human nature, we tend to go to doom and gloom before we revert to optimism. This is perhaps my strength and weakness, I'm an eternal optimist. Right. So from my perspective, you know, we are going with high spirits. We're going with confidence. Around season 25. The weather will be what the weather prevails. The economy will be what the government enacts, and we have to find a way and navigate a way through those circumstances. And, you know, as I said before, we have focussed entirely, our energy and our efforts on trying to make life easier for our customers, trying to provide them opportunities to introduce new programs, products that will entice the consumer, encourage the consumer to spend more money in their businesses. And we back the whole thing up with an unrivalled service in merchandising that helps put products in place of the consumer and therefore in danger of being sold. So, now look, we don't look at it naively, there are some challenges. We recognise those challenges, but I think we all have to go with the spirit and the energy around trying to make it as good as it can be. And I think if we did a bit more of that as a nation and we did a bit more of that as an industry, we'd find ourselves with better outcomes and better results.

So that's really interesting. I mean, you were saying, you know, you've got things in place and you're expecting to see some growth. Are there particular parts of the sector that you're you're particularly focussed on or thinking. Yeah, actually we can see that that is an opportunity for growth there. And what would you put those factors down to?

So I think you know, as a business, as a team, Phil, we're almost certainly planning for growth next year. And fundamentally, for the three reasons I've referenced so far. By being able to do things in a way that makes life easier for our customers, the natural outcome will be efficiency going growth. You know, there is a reality that operating the way that we do today does not always serve our customers well. It doesn't always guarantee product being available when they need it and when, more importantly, the consumer is ready to buy it and pay for it. So certainly streamlining our business, getting to a position where we can offer a better, more efficient service is going to help.

No question that will help that growth journey. I think the second definitely, you know, the introduction of product and the testimony from our customer has been interesting. You know, I've had a number of personal interactions where garden centre owners or the buying teams within have said the industry is desperate for new, desperate for innovation that encourages the consumers in some cases to come back to garden centres or in some cases, those already visiting frequently, reasons to buy something different. Reasons to buy new products and so forth, so NPD as an engine of growth is is critical. And certainly the NPD that we introduced 12 months ago, at GLEE has proven to be critical for both us and our customers. It has outperformed our prediction, our forecasts. It has provided something new and different in a world of tools or a world of lightweight pots. And our consumers ultimately, our shared customers have responded really well to it. And when when your garden centres are grateful for the product that you have introduced and reorder that product, you know you're doing more things right than more things wrong. And so we operate very simply. We're here to serve our customers. We are absolutely focussed on innovation and NPD, because we know it makes a difference to our customers ultimately. And it is the beginning of a growth journey every year.

So you mentioned there about your NPD last year, and I just wanted to ask you a little bit about that, because I know AMES last year introduced a huge range of garden tools at GLEE and the garden tools are a competitive part of the sector. So what is it that you feel is unique about the tools that you bring to market?

That's right. So last year, you're right, we did introduce a new range of lawn and garden tools under the AMES brand. And the truth is, whilst it was new to us and new to our customers, it's not new to the business. We've been in the business of making lawn and garden tools for 250 years this year, believe it or not, we operate in markets in North America and Canada and Australia and in each of those markets we’re the number one branded provider of lawn and garden cultivating tools. And that's not a statement of arrogance. It's a statement of fact. And so what we did as a team was draw upon all of that knowledge and capability within the group of companies. We engaged with customers in the UK and Ireland, alike. We listened to what they had to say about the category of tools. What did they like? What didn't they like? What was it that they would do differently in the category of tools? And we took all of that insight. We kind of merged it with our capabilities, around the rest of the organisation in those set markets. And we developed the program we launched last year, and it got some great feedback at GLEE.

You know, I think it helps, definitely, that the products aesthetically stand out with height, with the green accents and colouring and certainly the carbon forged steel element. It's quite dynamic looking. So that's looking quite pleasing. But it was much more than that. It was the form and function of the product. And, you know, we had our fair share of competing brands and competing companies wanted to come take a look at the stand and see the products particularly last year, which is always a bit of fun. And competition is really good because it eradicates complacency. And, you know, if I had one criticism of the industry in certain places, I think there's an element of complacency. And our customers deserve more, and certainly the consumers deserve more. So competition is a good thing. We aspire. We're happy with competition because certainly for us it gets the very best out of us as a team. The products themselves definitely have landed well. It helped to have a program to introduce those products, it helped to have a program of rich content, and we partnered with David de Monet, who helped us generate a lot of that rich content, the features, the benefits of those programs and, you know, the contents landed well with customers through digital media and ultimately translated into the sell out. The product is selling. And we know it's selling because our customers are ordering more. So yeah, we're very pleased with the program. It wasn't the only program. We, as I mentioned before, Phil, we did launch the lightweight pots program, and that was really our first venture into truly lightweight pots and planters. And I'm really pleased to share with you today that the sell in, but more importantly the sell out, has surpassed our expectations. And we have those listed in garden centres across the country. And, you know, despite the fact that these were products attracting quite premium retail price points, I can tell you that, and the data tells me this, our best selling products have retail price points in excess of £50 per pot. And so the cash margin that that generates for our customers is significant. And in many instances, it's five, if not ten times the cash margin of other synthetic products in that portfolio. So yeah, you know, it's liked by our customers, the garden centres. And it's clearly liked by consumers because they're buying them.

Yeah. It's interesting that isn't it? I think that within the industry there is a slight fear and a reticence, to charge what perhaps products actually are worth, because they feel that, well, we can't charge that because we've never charged that before, you know, for that particular type of product.

That's a very British thing, isn't it? I think the way you're talking, you can definitely tell that the company is a global company, not just kind of made in Britain, that I feel that some American values coming through. And I'm not saying that's a bad thing. It's a good thing. The positivity and the confidence there, which often, as Phil was saying, you don't always get from the smaller, smaller companies. So yeah, it's a different way of talking, the way you're talking to us Paul, than we've had from some of the people. But I think it's really good. It's really refreshing.

I like the point you make, Phil, about pricing, because you're right. Pricing can be a pretty sensitive subject when you're talking to customers. Well, it can be a sensitive subject talking to the teams internally before you talk to customers. And we always have a view that, you know, and you sit and you hear the draw of breath when you talk about certain price points. I think, you know, the truth is we do tend to live in a throwaway society. We live in a society that has created that perception around price. You know, how many countries in the world, you know, as you approach the one season of Christmas, can you find things on sale before the event itself? You know, and that's a commonplace feature in the United Kingdom, right? It is. And so, you know, we have a job to do ourselves as suppliers and also as retailers in this industry to provide value for money to our customers. That is a given. But value for money does not have to automatically mean low, low price points. And it takes belief and it takes confidence in the products that you introduce. And ultimately you've got to be sensitive to price points. But we have found in some of the introductions we've had recently where we've tested that, consumers are willing to pay for quality product. They don't expect quality products for zero, in fact quite the opposite. You know, many times you buy quality products, you perhaps buy it once, if you buy a cheaper, inferior product, you might buy it multiple times. You spend almost the same amount of money. So, you know, we believe in providing high quality, durable product, deliver what they say they will deliver. And be sensible around pricing.

So you’re coming to GLEE this year, which is a great shop-window for you to share your brands with the garden centres and other businesses. Other than in-store point-of-sale, what are the different channels that you use as a business to share your brand stories to consumers? And does that change depending on the brand within the portfolio?

So the team will be able to talk about what I would call a fully integrated marketing plan at GLEE this year. And by fully integrated, you know, there will be a bias to PR, there'll be a bias, undoubtedly to social digital media platforms. But by integrated I mean the message and the tone will be consistent. So, you know, we will be talking about the program, Project one, we will be talking about the new products, we'll be talking about the partnerships. But we'll be messaging it in such a way that it focuses on the benefits of the garden centres and the garden retailers. We're not there just to talk about ourselves for the sake of it. We're not there to beat the chest and say, haven’t we done a great job introducing 700 and something new products? No, there's a lot of thought that's gone into those 700 new products. They’re products that have relevance to the consumer because they're consumer derived. We spend a lot of time, investigating trends, and we relate those trends into the new products we introduce to garden centres, because we want garden centres to list our products for the single reason that they will sell, and they will generate cash and profitability for them. There is no benefit in putting programs in that simply sit and collect dust in the corner and have no value other than that for us on the way in. And so fully integrated plan, you can and our customers can expect to hear much more about it. There is no getting away from the fact that we do invest a lot of money and time and energy into activation in the centre itself, and it's critically important that we do that because garden centres don't struggle with consumer footfall. They really don't. But what we do have to do better is convert a number of those consumers who spend most of their time in the coffee shop as much as we want them to and like them to, into spending the money or searching their wallets on the great products that we can provide outside of that environment with the garden centre. That's where we do spend a lot of our time and energy. We are trying to create reasons to spend money. We're trying to provide the garden centres reasons, to entice consumers to spend that money.

So your point of sale is what's the most important of all your marketing strategy, would you say?

2 things, Kate. Certainly, I wouldn't dispute the fact that the in-store activation is critical because that is the silent salesperson. That is the way you attract interest from consumers. What is as critical is the unparalleled merchandising service that we offer nationwide across the country. And that's best described as, you know, an army of individuals that travel the breadth and depth of the country every day of every week, come rain or shine. They spend time religiously in garden centres helping create the best theatre, the best displays, because the more we do that, the reality is the greater the growth will come. And so it's a program we take very seriously. It's a program, like I said, just as we invested in the in-store activation, we invest significantly in the merchandising capability of our business because our customers have come to rely on it. And it will be a great shame to imagine an environment where that didn't exist. It's quite the opposite. Even in the challenging year we've had, it is a program we've continued to invest in because we know how critically important it is to our customers, to our garden centre customers.

Do you actually train in-store staff on your products as well? Or is that just you deliver it?

Phil, I love the question. We do. How formal and consistent is it across the country is perhaps more debatable, but certainly wherever we have the opportunity to talk about our products at all levels in this business, we like to do that. We like to help educate because there is a direct correlation between the more educated, the more aware and growth it's a fact, it's a scientific fact. And so, yeah, where we can and where there is the opportunity to, and I will say this, we do a fair share of consumer interaction because, you know, our teams are often mistaken for employees of the garden centres that we support. And even going to the extremes of providing merchandise clothing, they clearly says the business that we are, we still get mistaken. And I have personally and every month I take time to go out, to visit, to merchandise, to do those things, to stay close to the customer, to the consumer. I've been approached myself, under the guise of being a garden centre employee. And I love it, I love it. I very quickly realise I'm out of my depth, especially when I get asked about plants and such, and I have to find somebody who's much cleverer than I am. But I really enjoy that interaction with both the customer, but more importantly, the consumer.

Absolutely. Let's go back to some of what you've been talking about, your other products. So, I'd like to know a little bit about, you were talking about the synthetic pots. How important is sustainability to AMES? And can you give me some examples of challenges that you faced within the business, within sustainability?

Yes. Sustainability is, and you can see I've got serious in my tone all of a sudden, sustainability is critically important to us. And that's both a personal and professional statement. Now, what I will say straight out of the bat is we are a company, we're a team that are not interested in these large, what I call greenwashing statements. You know, I hear a lot of of companies, of even, frankly, politicians talk about big targets for, you know, net zero carbon footprints in certain periods of time. And then you go take a look underneath those statements and see little or no actual planning, to get there. That is not who we are. We're a company where sustainability is much more embedded in the business on a day to day basis. I guess it's a cultural thing, Kate, for us, we think about sustainability, at the same time, we think about, for example, new product introductions. We don't see the two things separated. We see them being mutually inclusive, not exclusive. So, let me give you perhaps an example of some of the new products that we've introduced and how that's actually played out. So we will be at GLEE this year, we’ll be introducing, a new range of solar and solar battery powered water features to complement an already successful range of mains powered water features that we provide to industry. Now, what we did around sustainability here is contemplate lots of things, but by way of one example, the packaging of the product. Now, we didn't go to our suppliers and our partners and think about sustainability after we had selected the products that we like or designed and manufactured the products we like, the process of selection, design and manufacturing contemplate sustainability from the beginning. So for example, the packaging solution, which is as important, frankly, as the product because it's part of the experience, right? You take the product home in the box. How you open the box and what you'll what you receive is part of the overall experience. And so we made very clear our determination to eradicate polystyrene and to ensure that all of the packaging vehicle was 100% recyclable.

For the introduction of the products. And we achieved precisely that. We still delivered great product, value for money, and all of the commercial requirements that our customers have. But we did it in a sustainable manner, and we didn't do it because we wanted to talk about sustainability as a concept. We did it because it was embedded into the manner in which we design, we engineer, and we ultimately saw some manufactured product. So hopefully that gives some example of articulating how we sort of embed sustainability within the culture, the ethos of the company and to sort of finish on that statement. We go about our business quietly in this regard. Right. We have a program. It is embedded. We go out, achieve. What you're not going to see is us necessarily putting lots of content out into social media, explaining that journey, because we believe that the product and the experience the consumer has should not have to be, we should not have to shout about sustainability necessarily. We should be doing it as a matter of course. And so that is a little bit about how we are as a company culturally, the belief we have in sustainability and how we try to embed it into everyday decisions and our everyday planning, to provide the best products and service to our customers.

And does that actually fit in with the values of the business? As in, have you got that as, one of the values within.

It is quintessential to the values of the business, Phil, because, you know, our core values, you know, our core objectives of being a partner of choice for our customers, first and foremost are underpinned by the values of our business. And, you know, I'll share one with you. We are proud of where we've come from, but we are humble enough to know we can learn to do better. Right. And it is very evident in this space. We're not an expert in the subject of sustainability. But what we do do well is understand how to embrace the concept and turn it into something real and practical in the jobs that we do. And if we could all operate in that way, shape or form, well, we wouldn't have any polystyrene, by way of the example I shared with you, in any of the products that we purchase off the shelf in any industry. And unfortunately, we do, and we still use as consumers and as industries, too much plastic and too much other materials that are unfortunately not recyclable. I'll give you another example, because it's important, we produce millions of bags of decorative aggregates every single year.

And those bags are packaged in plastic. Now that plastic is, I will make clear immediately that plastic is 100% recyclable. However, the industry standard is a very small percentage of recycled content in the first instance of making the bag itself. Now, we've been working, for some time, in fact, for around 18 months with our providers of those products to find a way to massively increase their recycled content of the bag in the first instance. Because as good as it is to say it's recyclable, if it's not made from recycled content in the first instance, it's not as sustainable as it could be and should be. So so we've been, endeavoured to do that. And I'm really pleased to share with you that we will now have the highest level of recycled content in those bags for decorative aggregates in the industry. Every bag we produce next season will have 50% recycled content and we're already now working with the supplier to define a path to get that 50% greater. And we won't stop until we have done everything possible to make it as close to, if not 100%, from the onset.

That's really encouraging to hear. So for any of our listeners who are attending GLEE this year, can you give us your best tips to make the most of their time at the show?

Attending GLEE for the last couple of years, I know full well how quickly time runs away with you. I guess if I were to give any advice and I'm not sure I'm the best person to give advice, but if I were to give any advice, Phil, what I would say is, if you think of coming, do some research, research the exhibitors, research what they have to offer. Check out the new product listings, and try to prioritise your time accordingly. You know, what is perhaps not working as well as you would like it to in your business. What would you like to do more of? And prioritise your time accordingly. It would be remiss of me not to say, at this moment in time, that the first thing anyone visiting GLEE should do is come to our stand. Now, why would I not say that?

You're the first person who has said that.

I think it's because I think, you know, we we've worked really hard, to create the program we'll be announcing this year. And it's a program that for those customers we've shared it with already, the feedback's been amazing. And so as I said, you know, I don't apologise for it, comes to see us of course, but in all seriousness, the advice I would give is think about what it is you want to get out of it. The time spent, you know, if there is a particular supplier or a particular product, prioritise the time there because the time will fly it really well. You know, four years into this industry, I can't walk from the stand to the restaurant or to the toilet without bumping into lots of people I've met along the way, and you end up having a conversation with. So I always leave for the toilet ten minutes before I need it now. You get my point.

That's a good one. So, Paul, I'm going to put you on the spot slightly now and ask, do you actually enjoy gardening yourself?

So, I'm almost embarrassed to answer this question. To be brutally honest, I love spending time in gardens. I'm just not the very best at gardening. And I need to be honest. I do need to be honest. But I genuinely do love spending time in gardens, and I'm very fortunate. You know, I live in a part of the world that's blessed with countryside. I actually live in a house that that was formerly a convent that has beautiful communal gardens with lovely fountains and such forth and flowers have names I would struggle to pronounce in Latin. But it looks amazing and I get a really good sense of well-being. And I love spending time with my family and friends in that environment. So I love the environment, and it's an environment which I can relax. I'm just not the best gardener in the world. And it's I think it's okay to say that.

That's absolutely fine. So, Latin names aside, do you have a plant or flower that would always bring a smile to your face and why?

Well, there are a number of examples. So is it okay to talk about a couple? Is that is that okay? Yeah. So look, it would be absolutely remiss of me to not mention orchids and lilies. I love orchids and lilies. And for good reason. 21 years ago, when I got married, you know, they were the plants, the flowers of choice. And, you know, I've got fond memories of how they came together. I remember explicitly walking into the church, the aroma of the flowers themselves. And of course, the bouquet that my wife carried was beautiful. And then the customary fight at the end to catch it as she threw it. So it's all those things. It was really good. And for that reason, orchids, lilies. Without question. I have plenty of orchids in the house. It's the one thing we have all the time scattered around the house. But, you know, I also love fruit trees. Love fruit trees. You know, there's something about particularly travelling the southern part of Europe. And I've had many holidays in Portugal, Italy, Spain, but particularly Portugal and, you know, sitting down amongst or near to orange trees, lemon trees, again, the aroma, the visual that I mean, it's striking visually, aren't they? And look, you know, when the sun's coming down in the end of a day, I don't think there's anything better than going picking a lime off a tree, being able to slice it and put it on top of a gin and tonic. For me, that's the end of a great day. And so I love fruit trees for that reason. I love the fact that you can just pick the fruit. You can you can do with it what you want at that time. But visually, they just look beautiful and striking at the same time. So yeah, fruit trees. And if you've got time, I've got one more I will share this one. And it's a curveball, it’s palm trees. So, 15, 16 years ago, when my mother and father-in-law bought a holiday villa in Portugal, we took a trip and we wanted to put some palm trees into the garden. Right. Typical. You see the landscape scattered with palm trees. So we bought a couple of palm trees, these things were 3 to 4ft tall, but still took three grown men to move them around and plant them. Big items, right. Big specimens. Well, 15, 16 years on these palm trees are now over a 30ft tall. So why do I love palm trees? Because they remind me of that journey and they remind me of these amazing family and friends holidays and experiences. We've watched, we've nurtured, and we've watched these palm trees grow to what they've become. And it's now beautiful in terms of the landscape. And it's something that I’ll always be endeared to. So as the non-gardener, I do love lots of specimens in the garden.

I love that, I love the way all those choices are all connected to really important kind of memories.

Yeah. That's the beautiful thing about plants, flowers and gardens. They have that. They have that common denominator.

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. More than a sofa has or a fridge. Definitely. And you also had good brownie points for your wife as well by mentioning the orchids and lilies. So big tick there.

It would be a faux pas if I had not, let's just say that.

Absolutely, but you're the first person that's mentioned orchids. So that's a good one. Interesting.

Yeah. Well I think that just about wraps things up. So I just wanted to say thank you so much, Paul, for giving us your time and coming on to the podcast and sharing a bit about your journey, the business’ journey, and, you know, what your plans are for GLEE. I think, it sounds like you're going to have your work cut out at GLEE with 700 new products. But I look forward to coming along to the stand and seeing what you've got to offer. It sounds great.

Absolutely. And thank you so much, Paul. It's been really, really fascinating talking with you. You've got a lot to say and you put it through very, very eloquently. So looking forward to listening to the episode.

Well, Phil, Kate, thank you for the opportunity and thank you for making me feel so welcome. I've really enjoyed the last 60 minutes as I speak.

Well that was a great chat with Paul. Lots of energy there. Lots of positivity, lots of confidence.

Absolutely. And I think that came from his experience with Black and Decker and Stanley and you know, all that side of the business. But also I think he's got a lot of confidence in the products which they sell.

And I think that's, you know, a lot of time people especially, it's a British thing. We make apologies for what we do, don't we? All the time. We're not good at pushing things. So to hear that was quite refreshing. I mean, I found it quite a lot to take on board, but, yeah, I mean, what an amazing sales person, really, for his company. You know, if the MD is like that, then, what must the sales guys be like?

And I come back to 700 new products that they’re launching. That is so much. I know that they’re bringing in quite a lot in their pot range, so that’ll probably make quite a lot of that number. But still, you know, that's a lot for all their sales team to get their heads around, let alone their customers.

Absolutely. At least you know they've got formulations and things like that to worry about. But I think we definitely will have to go and visit the stand and see if we can get any freebies Phil.

Sounds like a great idea Kate.

No, I really enjoyed that chat with Paul. I think for people listening you definitely learn a lot about that kind of self-belief and confidence, not arrogance. So just, you know, he's somebody who really believes in his company and his people and the products. And I just think that's a really important thing.