Phil:
Welcome, Steven.

Steven:
A very good morning.

Kate:
Morning. Steven.

Phil:
Steven, I wonder, by the way, we could just start by you giving us a brief summary of, who you are.

Steven:
My goodness, if I work backwards, let me think. I began my career in work as a professional athlete in the sport of triathlon, believe it or not? So that's a long while ago. Raced all over the world and had a great deal of fun when the sport was about, as small as it could possibly be.
So, I mean, I’ve watched it grow, which is wonderful. And then, ended up watching the 2012 Olympics in floods of tears to see the sport and began with kind of progressed to being on the Olympic stage in my hometown.
So, I then moved on into, my first job was in electronics, working for a company called MaxView that make TV antenna. So, I learned a lot about TV reception and signals and transmission, and then moved into a company called, Monster Cable and kind of brought that brand to, the UK and Europe as their country manager. And we have an infamous product that everyone knows about. So, I was the guy that bought Beats headphone brand. So, Doctor Dre Beats by Dre headphones, put those into your back in 2006.
And that kind of was my kind of birth into what we would call the attachment selling category. So, as phones became proliferated in every hand of every consumer around the world, we have a headphone brand, that kind of went hand in hand, as it were, with those phones. And the company grew massively and I moved on to, launch, the Freesat brand of TV, TV reception, kind of went back into the roots side.
And then, another couple of other companies. So, if you have a protective case on your telephone, I created that entire industry in the UK with four different brands over time. So, I taught people how to in phone shops, how to offer protection. Every time they sold a phone, it didn't matter whether you bought it from eBay or the store.
What happens was you wrapped your phone in something, and then if you dropped it and it broke, then you'd kind of go back to the store, kind of tail between your legs and kind of go, could I have one that protects, please? And that's kind of how it grew.
Then with JDM, what we've done is kind of I've that been the centre of all of these brands and wiht JDM what I kind of had the opportunity to look at was the barbecue industry, when Blackstone was kind of, coming into Europe as a grey import, almost.
It was a master distributor set up, and they were kind of looking at bringing this brand. So, I spent ten days doing what I do, which is look at markets, analyse growth, look at the competitors, look at the landscape, look at consumers and go and chat to I think with 25 individual retailers. So, they might have been larger or smaller independents. Then sat me down and said, what do you need from a brand? If it was going to be the best brand in your industry, what kind of services, solutions, how do you want them to work? And I came back with 22 different things, and two weeks later I went back to everybody and said, I've got 21 of them. How do we work together? And that was kind of my journey into the garden centre and outdoor living category.

Phil:
Brilliant.

Kate:
Okay, so thank you, Steven. So, we first saw you at the Glee Roadshow at Monkton Elm earlier this year, where, we were really inspired by, the talk and the presentation that you gave, which is why we wanted you to come on the podcast. And one of the things that really struck us was, you compared upselling to the McDonald's moment. The, would you like fries with that? So, can you unpack why that idea landed so well with the audience?

Steven:
I'll have to say one thing at the beginning. I'm going kind of goose pimply, remembering this when you say it's the first time ever when there's been an event that I've gone to and there's been a panel discussion or I've thought, I can add something to this presentation. And I sat there with a notepad and I'm scribbling down all of the things I want to talk, talk about.
Now, I'm a confident person, but I'm not the sort of confident person that can get up and be confident right from the beginning. I've kind of got to be warmed up to it. So, I sat there, did my preparation and thought, you know what? And I tapped someone on the shoulder and said, how do you go up to a panel discussion and talk?
And I can't remember who I was talking to, but the guy just looked at me and went, just get up. And I'm like, okay. So, notepad in hand I step forward, some kind of discussion, a beat around the impact of the National Insurance increase on garden centres. You may be able to recall the gentleman who was speaking at the time, and he was talking about the cost for his whole business as a single garden centre was the equivalent to 68 pence increase in revenue take per transaction for the whole year for every customer. I kind of sat there and thought, well, I have a model in my head that I use every day that could be of benefit to everybody in the room. So I was like, right, here goes, stepped up and said, I think I've got something to add. And that is that, imagine if you walk into you the example is McDonald's, but you could use Starbucks as a similar one.
But the McDonald's model is really easy because everybody knows the exact words that they use and can repeat them. And it's hilarious when you're my side of the presentation because you're talking to a room of 50 - 5,000 people, whatever the number is, and they're all mouthing it? This technique, not just works, it is perfect. So when you go into buy one product, they always offer you something else.
Now they never sell it. And that's the key point. It's not upselling. It's not that at all. It's 100% offer. And if they offer it in a way in which engages with you as a customer, regardless of whether it's a Big Mac and fries or whether it's a tomato plant and tomato feed. But whatever the phrases are that you find, then they resonate with the customer.
They make sense, they make logic, and there's what we call a, a value benefit analysis, which the customer does, which is the cost of this product is X, but the value that it gives to me is y, is that value and the benefit that I'm getting from that value worth making the purchase? And it's a real simple thing that we all do in our heads.
If you go for one of these, go for coffee, in Starbucks, and you ask for coffee and they ask, is that large now then making a presumptive question, but you are thirsty for coffee and you might be very thirsty for coffee, or you might be not very thirsty for coffee. That difference is more than 68p.
And that's the moment that I saw in that presentation of going, this is easy. Now the technique that you can use to do it is turning the whole paradigm around. So, imagine you're standing in the in the shoes of the person at the till, or the person taking the order in a garden centre, for coffee. If you can teach, train and coach them: Teach them something new. Train and practice. Coach them from the sidelines and offer them some assistance. Then surely, they would be able to deliver that question to a customer and get a response. It doesn't matter what the response is, it's a response. So, you can put a post-it note pad on the server's side of the counter that just says whatever the thing is you want them to say.
When you go to McDonald's. When you first learned McDonald's. And I've been there, okay. When you first work in there, when the customer says, would you like a Big Mac? You press the button on the screen and on the screen, it says, would you like fries with that? And they learn to say, there's a different button that appears on every level of every order, which is them interacting with the customer. Once the store manager is kind of seeing that they're doing it, every single time, almost without having to read the information. Then he unclicks the settings button on that person's screen controls. They get a one-star badge, and the process has started.
If I ask each of you, okay, if I ask for could I have a Big Mac? What does the person behind the counter say?

Phil:
Would you like fries with that?

Steven:
Okay, if I ask for Big Mac and fries, what is the person behind the counter say?

Kate:
Would you like a drink?

Steven:
Yeah, would you like a drink. So you add on the third item. Okay. And then if I ask for a Big Mac meal, what does the person behind the counter say?

Kate:
Would you like to go large?

Steven:
Yeah. So, what they're doing is each time the rounding on the highest profit, least cost item. So, the cash margin they're making in each one of those is highest in the first one, not quite so high in the second, not quite so high in the third. But what they're doing is they're adding the equivalent of that 68 pence every single time.
The question to you both is how many people do you think buy the upgrade at McDonald's?

Phil:
Oh, that's a good question.

Kate:
More than half, I would say.

Steven:
Okay, more than half, Phil?

Phil:
Oh, I have absolutely no idea. I would probably agree with Kate, I'd say yeah, 50 to 60%

Steven:
Okay, it's 74%. So, 74% of people buy the upgrade just by being asked, okay. So, it's 100% offer: every customer, every product, every time. That's amazing; because if you think about that number, 74% of people, it accounts for a staggering 38% of the total profit of the entire global business of McDonald's.
So now, if they didn't have that 100% offer, 74% of people wouldn't take it, and 38% of their profitability would not exist. Do you think McDonald's could work without that offer?

Kate:
No.

Steven:
The model isn't sustainable. Okay. So, it's it's a very different way of looking at it in terms of yes, if we now go to different industries, you can imagine there are lots of different industries that use similar techniques. And, but the model, you can make it of benefit to the customer. Just like my tomato plants with feed and a cane and a bag and compost like that, that journey, you need all of these things to make this work.

Phil:
Yeah, absolutely. I think as soon as you bring that down to the garden centre and, you know, your tomato plant, sort of example, I think it becomes very clear and tangible and easy to grasp. I think, you know, trying to take it from the McDonald's thing. Well, you know, well, we don't offer fries, you know, but as soon as you bring it into the garden centre world, I think all of those different scenarios that the customers come to the tills for or whatever, you know.

Steven:
I have an absolutely brilliant one at the end of that little model. My question to you: how much are fries in McDonald's?

Kate:
No idea. Probably over £2 these days. Yeah.

Steven:
Okay. So, here's the point. Nobody in 32 years of teaching this has ever got the number right. They guess it, and some get close, or some get on the money actually. But they don't know the price. But all of them are purchasing it. So, there's no… there's no perceived cost, measurable cost for the person making the decision when they make it.
So, for example, the easy way, how much is a burger, and how much is fries? Well, example burger at £3 and fries are a pound (it's not that. It's not that amount that that's what it used to be when I taught this every day). That's one third more revenue, 25% of the total. Okay. That's staggering. And 74% of people say yes!
So the example of that is if you now apply that, walk through garden centre and look at all the things that you cannot do with just the product you're buying, or you need to add something to it to make it really work. Like we all know, when you see a hanging basket, a hanging basket looks beautiful. The amount of people that water it once a week, okay,
and never feed it and get like a limp thing that hangs up and looks like an alien or spiders dance party. They could all have beautiful hanging baskets, but what is it at the point of purchase that would enable them to have it? So, then you could give that value benefit analysis every single time. As you can see, I'm rather passionate about it because I just find it really easy.

Phil:
Yeah. that's fantastic.

Kate:
So is it. Can I just ask? So I mean, when you're talking about an upgrade in McDonald's, for most people it is, you know, you know, a pound more maybe, if that sometimes in a 30p more or whatever. When you're talking about buying a tomato plant, sometimes the tomato food will be more expensive than the tomato plants, as will the compost.
So how do you get people to perceive that value? Because that's really that's more of a challenge, isn't it, for garden centres, because you're asking people to spend a lot more money than an extra 50p.

Steven:
Okay, I wish, I wish I could take this podcast out into my garden and show you the one tomato plant that I bought at the start of this season, and I followed through on what I'm teaching. So I bought three sticks (three canes). I bought some cable ties. And I bought some tomato feed.

Kate:
Plant ties, I’ll let you off.

Steven:
Not cable ties. It was the only word I could think to describe them. And now I have an abundant mass of beautiful tomatoes. They are all in the process of ripening, it's now the 5th of August, so we're kind of just in that phase with it where most of them have appeared, and now they're just going through the ripening process. I knew nothing about tomatoes. I had failed for 30 years on doing it, and I always thought…
Now cost to benefit, how much of I benefited from what I've got? Well, number one, I've learned to water it almost every day. Most days it's getting water to sit next to the water butt, which is brilliant. I've got an abundance of tomatoes. So, the value that I'm getting from the small cost that I put in, in the beginning is showing me that, tomato feed could probably have been used for 10 or 20 lots of tomatoes, and I could have had a much bigger offering and a much bigger finish.
I could have been, making my own pasta sauce, for example. But those things, they're not told in the journey in a garden centre. Remember, there's a group of people that come into every garden centre, there’s a new person that has their first garden, and there's a person who is extremely knowledgeable and probably almost qualified in life to be a garden expert.
What garden centres are actually after is this group of people to inform, educate and entertain them through knowledge and through the wow of living things, which is what a garden centre is about. And the more you can focus on giving these people what they need to start their journey, that content will affect everybody. Because they’ll be going:
Oh, yeah, that's a good idea. Yeah, I've been saying that for years, you know, and they become advocates for this group because this group are their grandchildren and equally their children. So, the knowledge of, of building information in, into people to inform, educate and entertain means that in a garden centre, they are requiring that confidence and knowledge to go and deliver their own experience in their own garden.

Kate:
You have mentioned it a little bit already about the kind of the issues that are that are happening, the big challenges, rising overhead, cost pressures. There was also quite a confidence at the event that better retail habits can make a real difference. So, what role do you think that trade shows like Glee, play in helping the industry rise to those challenges?

Steven:
Oh, I love that question. When I was thinking about this, it's just like… it's a moment when someone gives you a question and you say: this is just brilliant. Because part of the challenge for the industry is that when you're at, when you're at a show, there are only two things that a person walking by needs to visually find out. It's who you are, what’s new. Now, if the what's new is kind of you haven't really got much, but you've got what are you all about? They're the essence of what you what you have.
I once went to enter an exhibition as an exhibitor. None of my stuff turned up. Literally. We were about to start the first… we were at the end, I think it as about 7:00 in the evening and nothing had arrived. So we just, we went and wrapped a massive cardboard box. We hung it from the ceiling of our shell scheme stand and we wrote on it:
Who are we?
What's new?
Ask us.
And none of us were allowed to stand on the stand. We had to stand in the aisle. But at a show, If you can get those things across and you can deliver then the value benefit.
So for Blackstone, we're all about food. So, it's about cooking and allowing people to cook. For any other business, what is it though?
There was one that came across in Germany at SPOGA this year, which was a candle type product for an open fire. And they had a candle. Now, you can't like that in the in the middle of an exhibition. So, they had to have a big TV screen that had just their candle burning. It was brilliant, because it showed me exactly what they have, what’s new. And then the information that was on the stand was it comes in 3 or 4 sizes, 2 or 3 designs. Here's a renewable candle that you can stick into it. It kind of told me all of the information that I need to know in order to make a decision.
Now, what he didn't tell me is, how big is this market and how many of my customers would want it? That would have been useful. How successful is it in terms of how much revenue does it generate for a typical garden centre? That would have been great, but they're all things that you have in a conversation with a colleague on a stand.
So, getting your team up to speed, if you're a brand or an exhibitor is all about, okay, what are those 2 or 3 important things that people need to know? And then how do we ask questions to get the information flowing back and forth? And I think part of the challenge when you go to any exhibition, but Glee was one last year, I was a Glee virgin last year, and I walked up onto the stage to present our product for product of the year award. Again, as a nervous person, I think, okay, how do I pitch this? I had my warehouse manager with me and I'm like, Mario, what should we say? What's the most important thing for this audience? And he was like, well the guy just before you, Steven's doing a scraper for barbecues to clean it, and we clean ours by pouring water on it. And I'm like, you're a genius!
And I walked up and thanked the guy previously that was on for being my warm up act, because I now, instead of scraping and scrubbing and a heat element and a….

Kate:
I bet he loved you!

Steven:
I went and apologised after and offered to buy him a coffee. And luckily for us, we won the award with our kind of 36-inch, griddle with air fryers. So, we kind of had a kind of really a cool product that would probably have won anyway. But it was nice that we were able to kind of identify for the audience a type of solution, and a bit of fun, and a fun way to present it. That kind of showed that it hit what they would expect. So, for us, in terms of being clean, it's brilliant to be able to talk to people that have yet to discover griddling. And if you think about it, any restaurant that you go to, if you were to go backstage at the restaurant, you would see that probably 80% of the food is cooked on a flat plate griddle and no one knows. So, our job is to get that griddle to the front of the stand, show the food that can be cooked on it, and then go outside and eat it.
Now, I'd love to be able to cook and have it on the stand in an exhibition, but that's just not practical. So for us, and for any other brand exhibiting, a show like that is so important to create the discovery - like I never knew it existed. There are so many things that you have to do, but most of all, you have to look through the eyes of the recipient in the aisle and onto your stand to see what is it that see: who am I, and what's new?
And once you've done that, then it's down to your team on your stand to attract the customers.

Phil:
Okay. So you've talked there very eloquently about the brands and the exhibitors, at a show like Glee. What about, if it was, a garden centre store manager or buyer walking the show floor and wanting to make better, smarter, more strategic decisions and not reactive ones when they see something they really like or, or whatever.

Steven:
I mean, another phrase. Thank you, Mr. Noel Lee, for this one. Never buy out of your own pocket. So, try and imagine when you're walking around a show that you are every customer. Now you’re going to go with the largest group of common customers always, because that's the default that everyone goes to. But there are things at an exhibition.
There are always there's always a wow product. There is always a product that will go from unknown to being up there in the top ten in the garden centre sales the next year. The secret is finding them. Now. I'm not professional at doing it, but we spend at JDM, we spend a lot of time working with our industry contacts on asking those questions.
Is there a brand you know of that's up and coming? We call them Triple A's or all Triple-A products, Triple-A brands or Triple-A companies. So, they fall into three categories. Products are the hardest because you can have one company that has one product. So, in all of that journey of kind of understanding a product, it's the benefit that you derive from it. As a buyer looking into the stands, you've got to be able to kind of go, do I have a customer for that type of product? Is it a product that my customer would go, wow, and could it be offered to my customer by the colleagues at work in the store, or is it a self-service product?
We call that hang and hope. The last category, you know, as soon as you hang in hope: you hang it on a peg and hope it sells. Then what is it that goes with that product that communicates what the benefit is?

Kate:
okay.

Phil:
So Steven, I know you've written, an article that that was all about asking better questions. So, taking that sort of concept and translating it to sort of the Glee environment, how can people ask better questions?

Steven:
I think there are there's two things. When you started the beginning of this question, I had this moment of being terrified because for me, I thought you were about to say something which kind of makes my skin crawl with discomfort. When you are a salesperson on a stand, when you when you are a salesperson being taught how to sell for the very first time. So, you are you are a teenager, really. You're a late teenager, but you're a teenager. You go to a training course, and they use a phrase which absolutely makes my skin crawl. And I and I don't want to use it, but I'm going to have to explain it in this case. Okay? So if I want to ask you guys the best questions possible and get the best answers from you possible, I need to ask questions about you. So, I need to ask you questions that start with who, what, where, why, when, how, how much? Which give you an opportunity to talk. You've been doing this every single question you asked me has had that in the beginning of them. So, the conversation has to be about asking a question and aggressively listening to what is being said and aggressively listening means really paying attention, really hard. And those questions that you ask are referred to as open questions. I've just said the word I hate it, okay? Because everyone said, oh, you ask open questions and then you ask people, what does that mean?
And you never get an answer, and you never get a succinct, clear answer. If you meet a friend, a person that becomes a friend for the first time, you meet someone casually, you're out and about. You're at dinner with a friend or a party, whatever. And they ask questions about you. You instantly warm to them, and you ask questions about them, and they instantly warm to you.
And that's how friendships are built. And that's the key. The key is genuine questions, to start with, I was going to say the O word that, genuine questions that start with who, what, when, why, where or how and how much and you can develop those things. It's a brilliant technique of interviewers, in this case, for you two where you ask a question that starts with them and then just shut up. It’s so easy.
And when I've run out of things to say, I stop, you know, that's kind of how it works. And that's the best advice I could give to anyone working a stand and anyone at a show is find out about the customer. How big is your garden centre? Like, do you have a have a large area for outdoor living? Has it grown for you in the last like three years? So, I think, like asking the right questions, knowing how to ask a question, listening to the reply and then finding whatever it is that you've got that fits into helping that customer to get more customers, make more sales, make more profit. Be able to employ more people and grow a business or at minimum keep the business stable.

Phil:
So, Steven, you've obviously had a lot of experience of going to trade shows and exhibiting at trade shows. You talked about turning up at a trade show without any stand to speak of. What are some of the most common mistakes that you see brands making at these trade shows?

Steven:
Looking like a bazaar.
And, there's a technique I learned a long time ago which was which referred… I haven’t said this for years, wow: Dado and picture rail. So, if I have to tilt my head like this, on a stand to read the information that's there, then you're asking me to do exercise, now let's make it easy. Let's make easy. Let's do “who you are” and “what’s new”, between the height of a Dado rail on a picture rail, that's where the information should be written down. It breaks my heart when I see a rolled up banner, and I see type format about this large at the bottom of it, which is the person's telephone number. And you kind of have to go, [squinting] I can’t quite see that.
The visual impact of a stand… Now, it's not every single one because there are some variations, the pictures are what should take up all the space and the colour. The information is in here [indicating between Dado rail and picture rail], but it's what you're trying to get on that information, which is there is enough for you to pause, see something that relates to you, then use your eyes to guide towards looking for a person.
We have the three second rule on every stand I work. We don't always achieve it, but we have it as a rule, which is, if someone's looked up and gained your eye contact, you've got to be with them in three seconds. Otherwise… at Blackstone, we struggle with this because we kind of have too many customers, you know, like that's the challenge we’ve got at the minute.

Phil:
It's a nice challenge to have.

Steve:
You know, those three seconds, you’ve got, the people have heard about the brand, the company, someone might have told them, they might have seen it on TikTok or Instagram or Facebook or YouTube, or in general heard about the brands coming. And now they're like, well, I'd like to know a little bit more, but I'm kind of like resistant to walking onto the stand, you know?
So, as a employee on any stand? Get off the stand, meet the customers where they are in the aisle and have a conversation with them looking in, and they will lead you to what they were interested in.

Phil:
So, Steve, most of our listeners, I think, will probably be familiar with the notion of good, better, best, when they're presenting, their offer. But I know that, you've actually flipped that on its head. So, can you tell us about how it can help to sell more effectively by flipping it on its head?

Steven:
This is one you require to have a pen and a piece of paper, and it's really easy to do. So, as long as you’ve got that it's really simple. So, if you offer best and you come down to better, okay, what's the difference? What's been taken away from best to better? You've lost a couple of features. You've lost a couple of benefits. You've lost some value of those benefits. But there's a cost saving. So possible. Okay.
So, if I have, for example I'll use a Blackstone example. I have, a four-burner griddle and a three-burner griddle. So, you've lost a burner. You've lost from 36 inch to 28 inch. So that's even by my maths, eight inches of cooking space. Okay. Now that's the difference between kind of four people on a 28 and a party on a 36. Okay.
Did, I just secretly drop in the benefit loss you got there? Yeah. So instead of catering for, four people, you can do parties. So, without the 36 inch, you now can't do parties. So, what you're doing is you're taking away a feature and the customer can see the benefit, can outweigh the reduction in cost. Okay. So, if you take it away the customer value-ise that benefit, they can see that they've lost the value.
So, if you come down then you're losing something that you want as a benefit. If you try and go the other way and go up, what am I doing? I'm selling I'm pushing something on to you. I’m pushing something I want you to have. If you change the paradigm around and take away something but leave them with the ability to see the benefit of it and the value that gives.
It's really, really easy.

Phil:
Lovely. Steven, we're going to start wrapping things up a little bit. If someone was listening to the podcast and whether they're exhibiting or visiting and wants to make this year's Glee the most valuable one yet, what's the one behaviour or mindset shift that you'd recommend?

Steven:
This was a hard one when I when I thought about this, just for this moment. Exceed your customers’ expectations and look through the eyes of the recipient. That would be my really succinct as I can put it. If you put yourself in their shoes when they come into your stand, what are their concerns? Can you alleviate some of them? Can you generate new profit or growth in their category for minimum effort and maximum return?

Phil:
That's the shortest answer you've given us so far, Steven, and probably very valuable, that's brilliant. Thank you.

Kate:
So, Steven, you've talked about growing tomatoes. I'm not sure if you're a gardener, or if you're getting more into gardening, but do you have a plant or a flower that will… (And you seem to be a pretty smiley chap anyway.) But, if you're feeling a little bit fed up and maybe you haven't done that sale that you really wanted, is there a plant or flower that would always put a smile back on that face of yours?

Steven:
That's really interesting. In Covid, I lived in a house with an exceedingly large garden, a beautiful lawn. And I ploughed the whole thing up. I lost all of my income, and I lost a £9 million business that I was working on in days. So, I went into survival mode, and I
learned about gardening. And I have to say thank you to every single YouTuber in the category, because I learned so much, we fed ourselves. We had food hanging on the gate of our garden that we swapped out for occasionally bottles of wine. But, other things that we could trade with our neighbours. We lived in a small place, so I kind of.
I became a gardener just through necessity really. Yeah. We managed to have an abundant amount of rhubarb that we'd already been growing in a corner of the Garden. The answer to the question, I would say 100%, is any flower that goes from bud to bloom, because when you see that, that's the thing that kind of makes you go, wow, you know, and I've learned an awful lot in the last six months with kind of learning in general about so many things, but that, ability to see… I have a flower in the front garden in my house at the moment, which is a blue moon rose, which I bought for my wife. We moved into a new house six months ago. It's grown. budded and flowered in front of the window over the last three days, exactly in front of the kitchen window. And I kind of… that for me, is like a wow moment of beauty.

Phil:
Oh that's brilliant. What a what a lovely way to bring this to a close. Steven, thank you so much for talking to us today. It's been an absolute mine of information, a bit of a sales masterclass, I think. But something which I think all of our listeners, especially those who are going to be at Glee this year, whether they're visiting or, exhibiting, can really take some lessons, valuable lessons from it. So, thank you.

Kate:
Yeah, especially for us Brits, I think who maybe… we don't always do selling so well. So I think you've given some really, really useful advice.

Steven
I mean, the best part is: we might not do selling very well, but we do buying fine!
As long as we can teach the people who do the selling to be better until they can meet us in the right place, and then we'll carry on being exceptional buyers.

Phil:
Yeah. Thanks, Steven.

Kate:
Thanks so much, Steven. And are you at Glee this year?

Steven:
Absolutely. One thing I would say is if anyone's actually come by the stand, we cook food for free, you can sample it. So not only we will do food, drink, entertainment and sleep, you can do in your hotel rooms when you're back at the end of the evening.

Phil:
We're there with the podcast. And my, my son is going to be helping us out on the stand. So, I'll send him over to you, because I think the enticement of food sounds right up his street!

Steven:
By the time he leaves, he will be a master in presenting products and exceeding customers expectations.

Phil:
Wonderful. All right.

Kate:
Thank you so much, Steven.