Kate:
Welcome to this special edition of The Underground Podcast. I'm here at Glee at the NEC in Birmingham 2026, and I'm delighted to be joined by two guests, today we have Natalie Boynton, who is Sales Director for Happy Plants, and Ed Hill, the Managing Director of The Horti House. So welcome, and thank you for taking some time out of a very busy schedule.
So, let's get straight on to it. Natalie, you have a particular type of customer you've been seeing, and you give them a special name. And that name is 'plonkers'. Could you explain a bit more?
Natalie:
Yeah, so my business traditionally grew bedding plants, and somebody would need to go outside, buy a lot of them and spend quite a bit of time digging them into the soil. They'd need to know a bit about what they were doing, or have the time to read and interpret the care information that came with the plant. I think, realistically, the customer we're starting to see, and the customer we'll have in the future, is a digital native. We spoke last time I was on the podcast about this blue dot on the map. I like to think of it a bit like HelloFresh: you could buy all the ingredients yourself, but you get the flat-pack kit with some very basic instructions. How do we take what our product was and create something that this new customer can deal with?
I think the entry level for that person at the moment, the entry level, is something they can plonk. If it's a hanging basket you plonk it on a hook. It's a pot that you plonk in a bigger pot by the front door. We very much talk about a plonk-able product.
Kate:
You're not being rude about them?
Natalie:
No, it’s very much affectionate, not rude.
Kate:
Ed, obviously you supply garden centres and other places. Would you say they're dealing with a similar customer, that you supply to?
Ed:
I think with the end customer there are people who know exactly what they want, the educated. And then there are people who need support and help in their houseplant journey. So there's definitely a need for giving really clear instructions and advice, and for giving people confidence to buy, which we think is the biggest barrier to actually buying a plant.
Kate:
Not an easy one to solve is it? Not overnight, no.
Natalie:
We've actually changed who writes the labels in our business, because we had somebody who was very horticulturally accomplished writing the labels, and it would say that plants 'senesce in winter' and require a 'humus-rich substrate'. I'm thinking…
Kate:
Who knows that?
Natalie:
Exactly. So we've taken it back now. And one of our team who probably knows the least about plants now looks at it as: what would you write about how to look after that plant?
Kate:
Are you worried that, within that, we're at risk of dumbing down a little bit?
Natalie:
I think it's a valid point, but there has to be an entry level. With the pressures on people with their working lives, the age of retirement and the amount of people who are going to have time to interpret and learn every bit of information on a more complex label, you can do it as a headline. The headline is this, and then there's further information. A lot of people do that through QR codes now if you want to learn more, or through video content to support it. But sitting down and reading Latin names at length isn't going to be plonker culture.
Kate:
No, it really isn't. We are seeing a fundamentally different type of gardening customer. But, coming back to what I said, are we dumbing down? Do people genuinely want instant results now, or are we just feeding that? Are we in danger of saying, 'Here you go, plonk that down', are we losing that person who might actually want to learn a bit more about gardening?
Ed:
I think there are different purchasing journeys, and you need to feed both of those purchasing journeys. You need plants that are interesting and do require that knowledge, the rare and unusual plants in the houseplant world. There are things that might be tricky customers to look after… that's fine.
But you also need to think it through. And actually, the rest of garden centre retail is about impulse purchases in so many other areas. Yet, plants don't seem to be as set up for that. When some things are in flower, maybe they do shine and get picked up, but I think there is definitely a customer journey for that type of person who's potentially coming in for a cup of tea or coffee. How can we make them leave with a plant as well?
And that, it doesn't matter how many Latin names you put on it. It's whether you're giving them that feeling of: 'That looks nice today. I'll have one of those.'
Kate:
Yeah, I mean, orchids are your classic with that. You don't ever see a non-flowering orchid for sale in a garden centre. They really grab your attention, don't they? So they can work in that way.
Natalie:
We like to think of it as two different customers that we're moving between, transitioning between at the moment. The more traditional: I call them green-fingered, as everyone does. But, the more modern customer, the sort of person we've spoken about as the plonker, we call them clean-fingered.
But the reality is the age people are when they retire now, and also the cost of the plants on the scale you would need to buy the plants, to do what used to look like green-fingered gardening, versus with what people's economic situation is likely to be like at retirement. The HTA presentation earlier, they were saying how tough it's going to be for people, even when they do retire, the money they'll have spare is not going to cover it.
Kate:
Well, even if they can retire.
Natalie:
Exactly. So something's got to give. We've got to expect that shift between the one who's willing to put the work in to get the plants in the ground and the one that wants to get them home and get them enjoyed.
Kate:
Do you think this rise, I mean we’ve definitely seen this since Covid, would you say houseplants has driven this kind of garden-ready product? Because you've got a finished plant; you haven't got to nurture it, or sow it. Maybe this rise of houseplants is behind this change?
Ed:
Yeah, it might be a precursor to the plonker. The interesting part with houseplants, especially over Covid especially when you saw a lot of online businesses thrive. What they did really well, they situated houseplants as part of interior design.
And if you look at the good players in that business at the time, people like Patch Plants, where they named all the plants funny names. They made it accessible. We've been lucky enough to work with Patch and Freddie, the guy who founded it, previously. But before I even met him I felt he was someone who was growing the market rather than just taking share from somebody else.
I think it was a fantastic example of somebody saying actually, there is a whole demographic of people, potentially a younger demographic for sure, people who just want to have a bit of fun and look at plants in a slightly different way than just an outdoor garden experience. All the balcony gardens and indoor spaces too.
Kate:
I think a lot of people think of themselves as plant parents, especially with houseplants.
Ed:
It's a big thing, especially on social media.
Natalie:
We saw that especially during Covid. And these shops, like you say, had so much theatre around it. I remember one with a black screen and a countdown clock of how many seconds it would be until they released the next plant.
Kate:
Right, a bit like Apple and the iPhone. So it would become uber-trendy in some circles.
So, you've reduced choice, you're curating plant-and-pot combinations, and you've found that is improving sales. Do you think garden centres sometimes give customers too much choice?
Ed:
Yes. I've had a garden centre with 4,000 potential SKUs. So 4,000 potential plants on its list.
Kate:
Good lord.
Ed:
That's way too many. Where I started from in the hallowed days of three and a half years ago with The Horti House, I believed that we could just have a really slim range and this was it. Actually, I was completely wrong. There is definitely a balance between giving the range and the seasonality, and keeping it fresh.
I think the key part is to make sure their core sales lines are always there. So, if I was a retailer I'd be looking to The Horti House, or another supplier, to ensure I’ve got those key lines always available. But then you do need the fresh and the new. It’s got to differentiate you from a supermarket or anywhere else. And so, people come to a garden centre for gardens, for plants, so you've got to give that breadth of range as well I think.
Kate:
I suppose we are at risk of making it too complicated for people, so that is a way of stopping that. I mean 4,000 plants is crazy, because there's no way the people working in that garden centre are going to have the knowledge to be able to pass on. That's one of the things you need, you need hopefully the people who work there are able to pass on their knowledge of the plant. That’s crazy. That’s mad, I mean, that’s like a botanic garden.
Ed:
It's things like people are stocking a 6cm, a 9cm, a 12, 13cm, a 17cm and a 21cm of the same monstera. So, it looks similar, but it’s still how you manage that is quite hard.
Kate:
Natalie, you talked about, you used to have a horticulturist writing your labels. I think a lot of garden centres are still guilty of making things too complicated. So, how can we make garden centres to go a little more the way of Happy Plants, or are some still stuck in the mud and don't want to move forward?
Natalie:
I've seen some really really good moves with garden centres recently. I've seen posters saying, 'If you have a dog, watch out for these things in your garden', which is really like… so many people have dogs, it’s relevant to so many people. I think colour blocking is coming back in a big way, and I think that comes back to what you were saying: if you have too many options, you can muddy the choice.
But you need to have something new and fresh each week. It’s almost like a TK Maxx, this is the wow deal, and this more like the full range. We see a lot of big blocks of colour, or something will come and be there for two weeks and then you don't see it again all year. Like ‘this is its moment' feeling.
You see it a lot with lupins or rudbeckias. This is its moment. This is what you should be buying now. And it’s on wow – in wow spec, displayed in a wow way, that it’s a beacon that someone who wasn't going to the plants, it turns their head, because it’s so bright.
Kate:
How do we stop waste in that? Because I know with orchids, a lot of people, when the orchid stops flowering, they chuck it in the bin or the compost and then buy another one that's in flower. Are we at risk of creating plants that are grown a bit like a bunch of flowers: that's flowering, that looks lovely, plonk it there?
Right, it’s not, and rather than plant it out in the garden, do you think we can translate these garden plonkers into becoming gardeners who then start to value their plants? Or do you think that's the end of the journey?
Natalie:
No, I don't think it's the end of the journey. I think there's a huge education piece, which as an industry we could collaborate on. We have a range we call Texture and Bloom. And the bloom is seasonal flowers, but the texture is things they can keep forever. So it will say, the texture’s forever, the blooms are for now.
I think the reality of somebody having a modular display of plants that they swap in and out as they come in and out of season, if they have somewhere around the side to keep them so they can come back again next year. You know, your digitalis is finished, you can swap a rudbeckia in. And literally, just pick up that pot, like you're building Lego, and you swap one module, and I imagine people do that with houseplants.
Kate:
But do people look after them when they've moved them out of sight a bit? That's the worry, especially with the summer we’ve just had.
But I suppose in your business, you would you be quite happy for people to treat orchids as an annual, or is that a bit cynical?
Ed:
Interestingly, I thought that. Then, actually, you look at people who are successful with orchids, become orchid collectors. And then they'll buy orchids for their friends and suddenly it becomes a very giftable item obviously.
But actually, everyone says, 'Isn't it great? The flowers last for a month or two, then you chuck it and get a new one.' That doesn't encourage people to keep going back and buying them. Whilst if someone is successful, they'll come back.
And it's actually really important that we put more on the care cards more than just some sort of weird infographic in five different languages, so it works across Europe. The big thing we've done is actually to put really clear instructions about how to reflower an orchid and what to do.
You've been down to Double H Nurseries haven’t you? So you’ve seen the cold zone and you’ve walked in it. And when people walk into the cold zone for orchids, they realise it's just that shock of temperature. And like, letting people know they can put their orchid somewhere else and it'll come back and flower again.
Kate:
I know I'm an old fart and I've been doing this a long time, and I've got the bug and the passion, but I do think that starting out as a plonker, and like an orchid, you get an orchid collector, I think it does draw you in, there is something magical about growing something and: 'Oh, it's flowering again', whether that's a foxglove or an orchid.
And hopefully the plants themselves will do the talking and bring people into gardening. But what do you think will happen to some of those garden centres that aren't embracing this change? Are they going to become obsolete, or just become more like department stores? What can they do to keep relevant?
Ed:
Good question. I think garden centres, they’re pretty aware of what's going on and the changing customer. But garden centres are unique because they're garden centres. Anyone who thinks they can just be a retail centre, good luck. There's a real destination for a garden centre.
I think that draw has almost got stronger. And you see that where people are now making decisions to pop in and, yes, they might not buy a plant, but they still want to be surrounded by them. I think, as long as garden centres stay true to that, in terms of this is the destination and plants are at the heart of it, then it'll be fine.
Some will be more specialist and some will be more aimed depending on their demographic. I was speaking with Yorkshire Garden Centres this morning. They've got Dean's York Centre, it’s bang near where the students are coming in in a couple of weeks time. So what can we do to get some really nice, easy plants in for people to look after in their new student halls? And things like that. It's just understanding who your market is, in that area.
Kate:
That's the key thing, isn't it?
So, let’s just quickly mention YPHA, you’re surrounded by younger people that work within horticulture. Do you think the industry is understanding young people as customers a bit more now?
Natalie:
Ooh, interesting one. I think they're having to, I think that’s the thing. Everybody isn’t immune to the fact that this is happening, what we've spoken about. The changes in the customer, and I think they’re realising that the future customer is going to be very different from the one they've known before.
I think we're seeing a lot of consolidation, but I think that’s pressures from the cost of running a business at the moment is incredibly difficult and inevitably affects the ticket price. Ticket price affects the volume. Volume affects… You know, we are in a really difficult point; there's no pretending that we're not. But certainly your market does fairly well with students and above.
Ed:
Yeah, there’s an interesting… We've seen a big growth in coffee-shop plant shops, which is an interesting development. It's almost taking over from the florist angle a little bit. There are ways people can adapt their areas and create these beautiful spaces that young people want to come into as well.
Kate:
And then maybe buy something that's on their table.
Natalie:
One obstacle I didn’t mention with our side of things, is that there are very few young people that can own a home. And to dig plants into the ground is a big investment if it's a rented property.
Kate:
That's right, containers.
Natalie:
So the plonk-able product is a balcony product. It's a movable product as well. It's a huge part of what we've got to be aware of, is that you're not going to have many young people who are homeowners coming through.
Kate:
No, you're not. And I suppose you've got to convince them that plants don't just have to be houseplants. It can be an outdoor plant that you can plonk, as you said, on a balcony, in a container or on a patio.
Natalie:
Take it with you when you move.
Kate:
Take it with you when you move, absolutely. I'm just going to wrap up now. This is a question we're asking all of our guests: what's the one thing you think the garden sector could learn from outside it’s industry? Natalie, you've only ever been in the garden industry, but is there anything you see being done elsewhere, or in a different sector or from your previous background, that you think the garden sector should be going that way?
Natalie:
The one thing that worries me, and I know exactly why it's happening, and it’s back to NI and the minimum wage cost, is the loss of knowledge from the plant area, or even just the loss of manpower from the plant area.
I did a run around in July, around some centres and you can see it. You can see that the centres have got people there to answer your questions, or weed the plants, or trim them and look after the benches. The standards that can be created really elevate the customer experience. And having somebody who knows gives you the confidence to make the purchase.
I think there could be a false economy. I'm not inside their balance books to know exactly what it looks like, but stores that used to have eight staff in the plant area at any time are now at four and a half.
Kate:
It’s not good is it? It puts you off buying.
Natalie:
I think what worries me is if we're working towards a new customer who does need that support, and if the information isn't there, then we lose the competitive advantage we had from that. But also the customer service level as well from that. So, I don't know enough to criticise anyone for it, but it’s something from the outside I can see and think that that would be a huge shame. And really set us on the back foot, if we haven’t got…
Kate:
Do you not think that's happening in a lot of industries, though? I see it a lot in hospitality.
Natalie:
Self-scan tills. Yeah.
Kate:
And the queues are so much longer, because there’s just less staff, aren't there?
Natalie:
Definitely. But if you think of buying a plant in a supermarket, which none of us want to suggest is the ideal journey, but it happens, and for some people that's their entry into plants. If somebody has gone to a garden centre, they're obviously willing to pay a little bit more for it. But if the service they were paying more for that help and support, isn't there...
Kate:
What's the point?
Natalie:
Exactly. Then it becomes a lot more transactional rather than experiential.
Kate:
What about you, Ed? Is there anything you see other businesses that you think, this is what they should be doing?
Ed:
I think, less businesses, more it's the embrace of technology now. When you walk around a garden centre store, it's still fairly old-school. It's comforting in that sense, but actually, if you look at where we're going with information is, how you display that. Yes, you can have people there, but actually, also you do have the space in a garden centre to share information in other ways. Which might not be via people; it might be via really great visual displays and things like that.
I think there's a huge opportunity to understand the customer way, way better with technology, with AI and everything that's going into that side. That actually, people need to get on the bus with that. I think there are some opportunities.
Kate:
It's a tough one, isn't it? It’s a hard one. You’ve got to take a deep breath, for some people in stores, embracing AI and other technologies it is a tough one.
Ed:
Yeah, I think small steps. You know, just getting into the data a bit more and understanding what's going to move things forwards.
Kate:
So understanding the data.
Ed:
Yeah.
Kate:
That's a big thing. All right. Thank you. There's a lot of food for thought there. As ever, it's been a tough year, I think, but we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully things will pick up. Thank you so much for joining us.
Natalie:
Thank you for having us.
Ed:
Thank you.