Phil:
So, I'm delighted to say on the show today we've got Nick Trachillis from The Garden Centre Magazine. He's the company director. Welcome, Nick.
Nick:
Good morning, guys.
Kate:
Good morning. Morning, Nick.
Phil:
So, Nick, a nice and easy one to kick off: for anyone who hasn't come across The Garden Centre Magazine, can you just explain a little bit about how the model works and what it is?
Nick:
Yeah, of course. We build bespoke magazines for garden centres up and down the country. Each one's individually designed for that centre. So very bespoke from the front cover to the 12 centre pages, which we will build for the centre. So it's all about the advertising of what they have in store any promotions they have coming up. Any national branding that they want to go in there, that they stock in there, which is a good affiliation for the centre. And it's also going out to their readers and their visitors.
We refresh the magazine every six months. So it's like a dual season. So we'd do like a spring/summer, autumn/winter. What that does is it gives a chance for the garden centre to re-educate their customers with the content in the centre pages.
It gives us a fresh chance to put the content in there next to the advertisers, which we try and link together, and also a bespoke front cover. Obviously, assuming that, well, we know that the visitors will come more than once a year to the garden centre, so it's certainly nice for them to pick a different edition up through the 12 months.
Phil:
Yeah, it's quite an interesting business model you have with it, isn't it? Because the garden centres don't have to pay for the magazine, is that right? And the customers don't pay for it either.
Nick:
No. It's free to the centre and free to the customers. Now, the biggest thing we've come across in the 21 years of doing this is persuading the garden centres that it is free. And this is, you know, it's sponsored by the national and local advertisers. So it is a great concept for the centre because it is free and it's going on all the coffee tables and kitchen sides around the local area.
So fantastic concept for the centre.
Phil:
Brilliant.
Kate:
So Nick, how did you personally get involved in the magazine and why the garden centre sector?
Nick:
Ooh, what a question. Okay, so I started this business in 2005. I previously worked for a company that did a healthcare magazine. Now, the gentleman that was running that, he was all about the top and bottom line on the profit. And it wasn't about the journey for him and the customer and the staff satisfaction. So I worked for this gentleman for about 18 months, and I just looked at the concept he had on the health centres, and I looked at what other products I could do.
And then we looked at working with the garden centre industry. And just because no one else was doing that on a magazine side of things, there's some of the nationals that do an in-house magazine, but wanted to be an external company that could take that hassle away from the centre, because there's a lot of time in design, the editorial work and everything else, and the centres don't have that time to put into it.
Phil:
Right.
Kate:
Are you at all interested in gardening?
Nick:
I am so green-fingered, guys. Yeah, I love the garden. I love pottering. I've just moved house, so I've actually just bought myself a robot mower.
Phil:
Oh, wow.
Nick:
And that’s taken everything away from what I love about gardening. I love cutting the grass. I love turning off, putting my headphones in and just having some time.
Phil:
You’ll have to do more weeding!
Kate:
Oh, that's great to hear. So personally, you've got a vested interest in a way. You love the garden.
Nick:
Yeah, 100%. And, you know, just going back on the start of the business, my father, unfortunately we lost him in September last year. Me and Dad were really, really close. And he was in the media industry before I started. So when I was a kid, I used to see Dad at home with the Yellow Pages and one of those big mobile phones, and he was contacting local businesses doing a very, very similar thing.
So when I've come up with this concept, Dad was all over it. He's like, son, that is brilliant. He says, I want to be a part of this. And then Dad came to work for us from 2006 till 2011.
Kate:
Oh, brilliant.
Nick:
And we retired him in 2011 kicking and screaming, may I add! And he helped build the business from the ground up, which was fabulous. And we were doing it as a team.
Phil:
Oh, that's lovely.
Kate:
That's nice. And was your dad into gardening?
Nick:
Yeah. Dad was always a home bird. So, you know, he loved gardening, pottering. And he'd moved out to a lodge in the country, and he was just happy. He said he'd never move back to bricks and mortar, and he was just happy. He had a big garden, and he was always out pottering.
Kate:
Oh, lovely. Thank you.
Phil:
So Nick, we live in a digital-obsessed world. It seems like digital marketing is everywhere. So why does a physical magazine that's picked up in a garden centre and taken home still have some commercial value?
Nick:
I think massively. I mean, we could look at the sort of age range of who visits a garden centre, and I think that is a little bit old school, as in they like to pick something up that's tangible. They like to pick it up and take it away, and they feel they have got something for free. And that's generally what our magazine gives them.
And for us, it's hugely important on making sure there's plenty of content in that magazine. What we don't want it ever to be is a directory of advertisers, because that's never going to work for the customer picking it up. It's not going to work for the garden centre, and it's not pleasurable for the customer to read either and go through.
It's something you might look at if you needed a plumber or electrician, and that's not what the magazine's about. It's about interesting content for the garden centre visitors.
Kate:
I mean, I love picking up a free magazine and taking it home and having a tangible copy. I mean, I really do, and you just don't get that from a phone, do you? Just scrolling. You can't kind of write notes and cut things out, and this is what I want, and all of that.
Nick:
And yeah, I think it's massive. You know, pop-ups, notifications, just so many distractions when you're on a digital platform that with this magazine, I think you'll sit down with a tea or coffee, you're invested into reading that magazine. And we try and make it really flow in certain sections of the magazine. So it makes it really interesting for the reader.
Kate:
Good. So Nick, the magazine includes feature articles, gardening insights, tips and seasonal ideas. So, I mean, we touched on it a bit, but how important is the editorial content to the overall success of the magazine?
Nick:
The editorial content is absolutely massive for us. And what it did is, I mean, obviously it's tangible, you can take it home with you, but those hints and tips that are in the magazine that are used through the double seasons that we print for are really useful to the reader. 100%. Obviously they can go in store and ask information from the garden centres, and they're very helpful.
And they have people that know about each individual section of the garden centre, and we can relay that information back to the reader at home, because they're not always going to be in the centre. The magazine's there to read through and go through at any point for them.
Kate:
So what sort of gardening content do you think customers seem to respond to most strongly, would you say?
Nick:
To be honest, that's a difficult one to answer. We just need to make sure that with each different edition for that specific centre, that we mix it up a little bit. I think that's really important because if a customer is going to go in in March in the springtime and then return in the September, they don't want to be reading the same content.
So for us, it's really good because obviously AI is huge these days. We all know and we all use it, don't we? And it's an incredible tool. And so that is really helping us. We still have editorial writers that write for us because it stays more bespoke. And I know AI is great and you can change it and do it on a softer tone and everything else, and that is great for that. But I think sometimes a handwritten editorial, it just goes that extra distance.
Kate:
Well, absolutely. I have to, as a garden writer, somebody who writes for garden magazines, that's a hard one for me, because obviously AI is taking some of my work, and all AI is doing is kind of taking other garden writers' work and kind of condensing it, but without a personality. So I think when you've got a magazine that goes to a specific garden centre, it's great to have a personality, isn't it, to that specific garden centre.
Nick:
And you know what Kate? That's what we're all about, and is making the magazine a personality. So it was so well described by you then. And I think having a personal editorial written by a human is massive compared to AI. I'm not against AI at all. I think it's a fantastic concept and it's here to help us massively. I do worry it's going to take over the world, but hopefully not in my lifetime.
Phil:
Do you have a pool of editorial writers that you use?
Nick:
We have a couple, and we had an editorial written by Katie Rushworth. And so Katie, yeah, we'd met up, I think, about 12 months ago, and I spoke to Katie and asked her if she’d write an editorial for us, and she did a double page, which was fantastic. And I think we will be back in touch with Katie to see if she will do some stuff moving forward.
But I'm assuming that was an offer, Kate, to write some editorial work, was it?
Kate:
Absolutely, well, if you ever need a southern content writer, do get in touch.
Nick:
100%. Because Katie's Yorkshire, isn't she?
Kate:
Yes. I'm south-west, you see. So obviously there's different things you need to talk about. Different weather, different climate, you know.
Nick:
100%. We don't get the weather up north do we?
Kate:
You just get different, very different weather!
Kate:
Very much so. Yeah. I think you definitely get the leaves on the trees before us.
Nick:
Oh my goodness. And things we don't have to put away. We don't have to, you know, overwinter inside. That's what's shocked me when I moved to the south-west. It's really mild but it's also very wet.
Anyway. We digress. So, we’ve been talking about the garden content, which is obviously my love. But what is important is how do you balance that with the commercial needs of advertisers and garden centres? So obviously you want garden content, but it's also got to pay. This isn't just a charity magazine. This is something, you know, that the advertisers with you want to see a return on, and the garden centres as well and obviously yourself.
Nick:
Yeah. I mean, you have to have a balance. Of course you do. Without the garden centre there's no magazine and without the advertisers there's no magazine either. You know, they both matter to us massively. We're always huge on the content separation to advertisers. We'd always want over 50% content. And at the end of the day, the reader is what's important to us, to pick that magazine up, take it away and return to the centre again and pick that magazine up on its next edition and enjoy the content.
And really cutely, we get some really amazing phone calls from the sort of older generation that phones up and thanks us for the magazine. So they'll phone into the office and say, oh, we've picked up your new edition. It's a brilliant read. And then the staff are just laughing. It's just amazing, you know, and it's just great.
We love to hear that feedback from the magazine. It's really important to us.
Phil:
Oh that's great. I really like that. So you're talking there a little bit about that balance. And obviously there are commercial needs for the magazine. So how do you measure the effectiveness of the magazine? I mean, you know, we talked earlier about sort of digital media being everywhere. And one of the strong things about digital marketing is the fact that it can be measured really down to the click, but with a magazine, it's quite different, isn't it?
So how do you measure the effectiveness of the magazine?
Nick:
It's very difficult for us to do that, Phil. Now, feedback is great because we have returning advertising clients that come back to us. We have one specific carpet company down in the Midlands, and he just absolutely… He says, Nick, the amount of times the customers bring the magazine in because he puts a discount offer in there, which we don't always say is the right thing to do.
It's up to the client. At the end of the day, we want to make that magazine as pleasing on the eye as possible, and putting offers all over the magazine is not what the magazine's about. But he's returned year after year after year on his subscription with us. And he says the amount of times people walk in with the magazine and say, look, you've offered a discount with the magazine. Here we go. Let me get some carpet from you. He absolutely loves us.
But it's also not about the exact numbers on the return. It's about putting your face out there and your brand out there that people recognise it. It's the same old thing. You drive past a bus stop with a McDonald's logo on and everything else. Does that mean you go straight to McDonald's? It doesn't, does it? But you're in the local area, you're going to the right clientele and it's great branding for your business.
Phil:
Fantastic. So if you were speaking to a supplier brand that sells through garden centres, I mean, or a local company, I guess as well, like your carpet company that you're just referring to. Why should they seriously consider advertising in The Garden Centre Magazine?
Nick:
I think what's important for us, and the reason why we chose this sector to go into, was you look at a garden centre visitor. So we tend to say that they are homeowners, they do have disposable incomes, and they're not scared of spending money going into a garden centre. And I think really quite cleverly, what garden centres tend to do is put the cafe and restaurant towards the back of the centre, so you have to walk all the way through past all the shelves, buy a load of things, and then go for your coffee or your afternoon tea or whatever you're going to do.
But yeah, it was about people that weren't scared of spending money on their property, whether it's the inside or outside.
Phil:
Right. Excellent. So do you think brands get a better result when they think less about the advertising and more like they're making a useful contribution to the gardener's life?
Nick:
Yeah. And I think that's to do with the content as well. But I think with the brands, like I've just stated, it's really important that the brand is showcased out there and, you know, they'll have different advertising routes that those companies are using. But to coincide with the garden centre, that the branding is in the centre. If it's a national brand, it's in the magazine, it's in the centre. But it's just that recognition of seeing that brand again. And I think it's really important that they're supporting the garden centres as well.
Kate:
Yeah, absolutely. So, I mean, obviously you work very closely with garden centres and you must get quite a broad view of the sector. So what do you think garden centres are doing really well when it comes to customer communication? And where do you think there's still room for them to improve?
Nick:
I don't know whether the room to improve is... I mean, with our magazine we have a digital download version as well, so done off a QR code. So, QR codes sort of make me laugh a little bit, because QR codes were around years ago and it just didn't really take off. Now even logging into Netflix, you need a QR code. Everything's QR code these days.
And just to give, I think garden centres are pushing for a slightly younger audience, especially if you can imagine like a first-time buyer on a new-build estate. They come with either mud in the back garden or a very basic lawn. Well, they are a perfect customer for the garden centre to go and buy trees and shrubs and planters and bark and stone and everything else.
And so I think they'd like a younger audience, maybe for those reasons. But I also think that's why the digital side is important for us to have that, because just QR codes, snap away. It's digitally downloaded, it has quick links so they can phone the advertisers instantly or any editorial information they need moving forward.
Phil:
Interesting. I didn't realise you did a digital download version as well. That's interesting.
Kate:
But do you worry that over time the digital download will kind of supersede the actual hard-copy magazine?
Nick:
Absolutely not, and not in my lifetime. I'm 100% confident that the audience of the garden centre will always keep that tangible asset of a magazine, and I think it will always be quite a rewarding thing to take away from the garden centre after you visit.
Kate:
So can I just, following on from the question Phil asked, have you ever gone to visit a garden centre that has wanted to talk to you about having the magazine and you've just thought, no, this garden centre is not right, or there's so much more they could do? Have you ever kind of had to be polite, or will you just happily kind of give any garden centre your magazine?
Nick:
No, we won't give it to any garden centre. We do have a sort of parameter, what we work to. And the general rule of thumb is a certain amount of footfall through the centre on a weekly basis. And what's important to us is the number of seats in the cafe and restaurant. So we wouldn't work with a garden centre with no cafe or restaurant because we think that's a really good dwell time and they will read the magazine in there. We sometimes have the QR code triangles on the table where they can download having a coffee, but yeah, they're the parameters that we'd look at.
But it's also not about, for us, what's bigger is best. So you could have a garden centre with 300 car parking spaces, or you could have a garden centre with 50 that's been a household name for 100 years.
So when you're phoning local businesses, the household name is always going to be better than the big garden centre that's, you know, just a commercial in and out, in and out, in and out. And the household names really work well for us as a business.
Kate:
And they've got a loyal customer base as well, don't they, that go back time after time.
Nick:
100%. And different generations, you know, that have visited that centre, which is fantastic. My grandma and grandad used to come here and, you know, the younger kids are coming through these days.
Phil:
Just interested. You mentioned about phoning up potential advertisers. Whose responsibility is that, to find the advertisers for the magazine? Is it yours or is it the garden centre or is it a mix?
Nick:
No, it's absolutely down to us Phil. We have an in-house sales team and so we will contact a number of clients over a matter of weeks. We will create the interest. We have sales representatives that go out to visit the clients face to face, and they also have meetings in the coffee shop at the garden centre. So we're bringing income to the centre because our sales rep usually moans at me of how much money he's spent on coffee that week.
But what's great is the clients are coming in. Potential advertisers, advertisers that sign up, they're coming to the centre. We're attracting local businesses. We're creating a bit of a frenzy, if you will, for the centre and getting the awareness in the local area, which is absolutely brilliant branding for the centre alone.
And also, the customers get to meet the coffee shop girls, they'll meet the sales representatives, they’re on first-name terms, you know, we can discuss where the stands are going to go through the centre. Their busiest sections, the entrance, exit, cafe, restaurant, customer services, etc. is where our stands will go.
Kate:
Right. So do you tend to steer clear from the kind of bigger brands of garden centre products? So like the Westlands and the Evergreens and go for more, you said you go for local so it's not always obviously garden-based because you have a carpet company. Is it mainly smaller garden products or is it just whoever is local? Is that kind of where your support comes from?
Nick:
Yeah. So a lot of it is local. We deal with a national insurance company. They come on board with all our centres. We've done different deals in the past with national businesses. That is great branding for them, like we went through the branding and how it works previously. But I think the local businesses, a lot of them like to get involved because it is so local for them.
And going back to the sort of footfall and the people that do attend the garden centres, it's their perfect clientele.
Phil:
Right, okay, I get that. Just changing tack now a bit, Nick. So the magazine supports the wonderful Greenfingers Charity. So how did that relationship come about and why is it important to the business?
Nick:
The relationship with Greenfingers has been, I'd say, about 10 to 12 years now, and we recognised it in the garden centre industry, that Greenfingers was recognised by a lot of garden centres. We delved into the charity and dug a little bit deeper of what they do and why they do it, and I think it just hit a chord with me.
I think we've all been affected by family and illnesses etc. and the work that Linda was doing at the time was just phenomenal. We put an advert for Greenfingers in every single magazine of ours through the UK. Now we look at a reach of about 1 million to 1.2 million a year on readership, and that is just pick-up rate.
So if somebody else reads it at the home, we don't have those figures, but we can only go on the print amount. So massive, Greenfingers. And like I said, it was linked to the garden centres. We'd heard the name quite a bit and garden centres, we'd offered to say, look, we'd like you to put a charity in there of your choice.
And Greenfingers was probably the most chosen charity through the UK that we were seeing. So we liaised direct with them and started to deal with Linda. Obviously, Boyd has come on over the last few years, which is great to see him at the shows and the GCA and everything else. I really like Boyd and I love his shirts as much as I like his personality.
But yeah, it's really important. I mean, listen, I'm a father of two, a stepfather to three, and these children are going through the worst time, with the parents as well. So it's really key for us that we can really support Greenfingers as much as we possibly can.
Kate:
And so what are you supporting this year, you’re supporting something quite big is that right?
Nick:
Yeah, so we're the headline sponsor of the Summer Ball down at Coombe Abbey. So really excited for that. And we've also sponsored the jackets on the hike that they're currently doing at the minute.
Phil& Kate:
Oh the Kilimanjaro.
Nick:
It is, yes, the guys are up and on it. So we've sponsored the jackets which was important to us as well. And don't get me wrong, it's great awareness for us in the industry, but at the end of the day, it's a great charity. We're fully behind them and we will be for years to come.
Phil:
Ah, that’s brilliant.
Kate:
Oh that’s wonderful. So looking ahead, how do you see The Garden Centre Magazine developing over the next few years?
Nick:
For me, it's all about the relationships rather than the big wins. I'm proud of what we've achieved, but none of it's been done alone. We've got a fantastic team. For instance, my office manager, John, has been with me 20 years and Steph, my sales manager, has been with me 20 years. So, you know, those two guys are so key to this business. They know it inside out. And we live and breathe the business.
And touching on a comment I made before, the gentleman I used to work for years ago, he was all about the profit, the top line, and he wasn't about the journey. And I think the journey is really important for us and any new staff that we take on. I always say to them, look, it's really important that you enjoy approaching the office in the morning. I want you to walk through that front door. And that's the key thing for us.
And the journey is honestly, I reiterate it again and again and again, and I don't want anyone to be here if they're not enjoying the journey and not coming on the journey with us. And we're about natural growth, we're not on about pushing numbers all the time and pushing and pushing and pushing. We want to build those relationships, and growth is important to us, of course it is, but I want the growth to come naturally.
Kate:
So how many staff do you employ?
Nick:
So we run at about 21, 22. Some exciting news: Mickey, my partner, she's come from the beef supply chain industry for many years running a big business. She's got a marketing degree and she's coming on board with us in the next few weeks. So that's really exciting. She's going to link up with Kimberley at Hornby George, and we're going to do a lot more marketing, a lot more social media.
We're going to push and we're going to get out there and visit the centres and just knock on some doors and go and put a smile on some faces.
Kate:
Brilliant. I mean, it's very rare we speak to somebody in this garden industry that says, yeah, I'm just doing it to make money. I'm just doing it for profit. Most people are in it because they love being in the industry, and it sounds very much like the magazine that you run is part of that as well. So that's great to hear.
But that about wraps up our interview. So thank you so much for spending the time to come and talk to us.
Phil:
Yeah, thanks, Nick.
Kate:
Will we be seeing you at Glee this year in Birmingham, or is that not something you do?
Nick:
Just bought my tickets. Yeah, we'll only be a walk round, but myself and Mickey will be there. So you guys will be there?
Kate:
We'll be there. So come and find us. Yes, do come. We'll be taking some interviews on the stage.
Well, I'm going to say an official goodbye and thank you from The Underground podcast. Nick, have a lovely rest of the week.
Nick:
Amazing.